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nomads

gambling_cruiser said:
I don't care about the mental masturbation in the NOMA thread.
I don't know what you want to show me.
I stated an opinion "I prefer Star Trek utopia over hunter gatherer utopia".
I didn't say "I'll prove the current state of affairs is moral superior to the state of affairs 20000 years ago".
So what?
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You justified your choice with a critique of the other and when shown the poor logic reverted to a moral argument as the deciding factor without supplying a reason.
Move the goalposts much when you discuss things?
 
Maybe I can't see what you are talking about because I'm not an native english speaker.
Where did I make a moral argument?
 
Space Nomads. It's been done.

Battlestar Galactica.

Enjoyed your musing anyway, quarky.

See D'rok's line in my sig. ;)

"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok
 
Yes, just musings; not an agenda or anything. Yet, it does seem possible (and even desirable) to have a much smaller population (and higher standard of living) without the necessity of a huge killing field. Nor does a futuristic nomadic culture imply that we wouldn't be able to fix a broken leg or do any dentistry.
 
Delvo said:
You're forgetting the rules of the game here. We're not talking about returning to the past. We're talking about a future in which we are able to enjoy the positive side of a more nature-oriented existence AND the technology to counter those drawbacks.
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What is "the positive side of a more nature-oriented existence " ?

I like indoor plumbing.
 
quarky said:
The slow demise of nomadic cultures makes me nostalgic in a way that I don't 'own' in any way.

My idea of a good vacation is when I get to hike in strange territory, for several days, carrying my creature comforts on my back, and gathering some wild foods on the journey.

Like other nature junkies, I'm willing to pay for the too-brief experience of the hint of what our ancestral consciousness might have been.

Better yet, would be to do this with a group of friends and family; a tribe, for lack of better word.

Of course, this is sort-of phony. I manage to avoid the horrors and hardships of the historical nomads...yet, I'm left envious of the pre-agricultural societies.

When people learned enough to stay put, and reproduce like bunnies; and we discovered repetitious toil, enslavement, stashing of 'wealth', and a host of other dubious gains...well, something precious was lost.

So I ponder:

In an enlightened, more utopian future fantasy, who doesn't imagine the joys of travel and the sense of wonder and discovery?

Is it possible that if we were to consciously evolve, or create, the best possible lives that humans could have on this planet, might we consider the nomadic tribe, with the plus of knowing what sort of population density might allow it's continuation?

Toss in a few technological breakthroughs; some egalitarian attitudes; some hard bought wisdom...

Wouldn't the hunter-gatherer experience be the tits?

As opposed to the star-trekian, matching outfits, titanium coated sci-fi future? With tv dinners coming from a computer driven apparatus, and hybrid yeasts supplying our dietary needs, and things being clean and predictable, with 20 billion moderately satisfied human souls living the ok life?

your thoughts appreciated.

quarky
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Yeeeeah...I'll take the exact opposite of this.

(That's not an insult. My ideal is just different than yours is all.)
 
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I hate to let this thread die. It seemed pretty cool at the time.

Would it help if I pretended to have a clear agenda?

I do hate video games...but mostly because I suck at them.

I've got a serious jones for the nature show, for whatever reason.
And I will miss it sorely, when i'm gone.

Or when its gone.

(whatever)
 
quarky said:
The slow demise of nomadic cultures makes me nostalgic in a way that I don't 'own' in any way.

My idea of a good vacation is when I get to hike in strange territory, for several days, carrying my creature comforts on my back, and gathering some wild foods on the journey.

Like other nature junkies, I'm willing to pay for the too-brief experience of the hint of what our ancestral consciousness might have been.

Better yet, would be to do this with a group of friends and family; a tribe, for lack of better word.

Of course, this is sort-of phony. I manage to avoid the horrors and hardships of the historical nomads...yet, I'm left envious of the pre-agricultural societies.

When people learned enough to stay put, and reproduce like bunnies; and we discovered repetitious toil, enslavement, stashing of 'wealth', and a host of other dubious gains...well, something precious was lost.

So I ponder:

In an enlightened, more utopian future fantasy, who doesn't imagine the joys of travel and the sense of wonder and discovery?

Is it possible that if we were to consciously evolve, or create, the best possible lives that humans could have on this planet, might we consider the nomadic tribe, with the plus of knowing what sort of population density might allow it's continuation?

Toss in a few technological breakthroughs; some egalitarian attitudes; some hard bought wisdom...

Wouldn't the hunter-gatherer experience be the tits?

As opposed to the star-trekian, matching outfits, titanium coated sci-fi future? With tv dinners coming from a computer driven apparatus, and hybrid yeasts supplying our dietary needs, and things being clean and predictable, with 20 billion moderately satisfied human souls living the ok life?

your thoughts appreciated.

quarky
Click to expand...

I know hard to find places that might fit that, some closer to home than one might think to, but I absolutely understand what you mean. That kinda thing is very good for ya.
 
I've got a jones for the nature stuff. Problem is, it keeps getting smaller and crappier, with more people that want to experience it.

A lover of cities, on the other hand, would keep seeing a growing environment to their liking.

It would be good, imho, to preserve or protect, or even allow any nomadic cultures to continue their ways.
 
I'm fairly certain that the nature jonesing is X% of what drives the Scandinavian larpers. Otherwise they would stop when they turn 25, but they don't. I know people who are well into their 40s who still kit up and go medieval-camping two or three times per year. Sometimes for as long as two weeks at a time.

NB: Scandinavian larp is very different from what people in UK and US think of as larp. I'm sure there is someone here who is able to give a more in depth description of the phenomena. I do know that Norwegian larps can get culture grants, just like theater groups, musicians and exhibitions.

ETA:

And as for the topic, I think it is a natural and norma to have a gut reaction - for just a second before you start thinking of bog rolls, tap water and antibiotics - where part of you really, really want to run away with the circus.

I can't find the quote so I will have to heavily paraphrase it (especially since I have only read the Swedish translation), but Francois Bourgeon lets Anais of "Les Compagnons du crépuscule" say it at some point. Something like: "...to leave with the travellers, that's what every burgher secretly wants. The screaming multitude that pelt us with stones are in reality trying to stone to death their own desire to leave."

We have undeniably reached this level of comfort at a cost - it may be worth the cost, but it is a cost. It _is _ unnatural to schedule the time you spend on securing your sustenance, as is the amount of time we spend on this. It is also unnatural to spend the majority of your waking hours secluded from the daylight.

Understand me right: I'm not knocking it, it is practical and it has led to prosperity and improved living conditions and above all as some have pointed out, it is necessary to sustain such a huge population as we are.

But don't tell me that no one here has wished they didn't have to spend 10-12 hours, five days out of seven, either at work or travelling to work in order to sustain a living? Is it really reasonable that so little time is left for _life_?

Now, I'm a comfort junkie. I want above all a place to call my own. I want the bathtub, the sofa, the tap water, the central heating. I want my water bottle, my paracetamol and my Snickers. But I also want to say "screw this" and eff off, several times every month. Plentyful and tasty food I could probably live without - if there was enough for sustenance - but not my fuzzy slippers, the kettle and soap.

Here, in northern Europe, the main problem for nomads have historically been other people. People who claim the land and treat them with suspicion. In a completely nomad world, I suspect people would still start to claim land and fight each other for it.

But I don't think it is weird to occasionally hear your inner nomad crying out or to have a craving for the outdoors.
 
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