Noel Gallagher on Shakespeare - "*********** gibberish"

[Cleon]

If you're going to make appeals to authority, at least appeal to the right authority.

Both psychologists and psychiatrists are authorities when it comes to issues like Asperger's.

You, however, are not.

It's not questioning the claim, it's questioning the person's fitness to make the claim. The mere fact that I have to repeat this to you is exactly what I was referring to when I said I expected better.

If you think I've personally attacked you, you are free to report the post and another moderator or admin will judge the merit of your claim.

 

[Complexity]

They did. And I'd be more than happy to put my knowledge and understanding of music and art in general against yours.

Really? One of my previous full-time jobs was as a professional story analyst, where I read and analyzed multiple novels each week for literary agents. I was hired for the job based on the sheer amount of self-directed learning and knowledge I displayed on the topic.

We can compare knowledge of writing any time. I'll even spot you 5 of your closest friends and a computer with internet access and I'll debate you all blindfolded on any aspect of the craft that you want. None of that will help you, of course, because many of my ideas are self-synthesized and thus can't be responded to via google.

So I don't suggest you try to insult me or question my worthiness, I don't take kindly to it and I won't spare your ego when it comes down to it.

It's an informal term to give reference to what Gallagher and others were hearing during the play. Again, I'm amused by the tone you're attempting to take. Why don't you start a thread just for you and me, that everyone can read, then you can really educate me?

I don't compete.

I don't need to.

I seriously doubt our areas of knowledge in music overlap very much. I focus on what I find to be of greatest value. While tastes differ, most of the music that I love has already stood the test of time.

I am a writer.

You were a 'story analyst'.

Enough said.

 

[EGarrett]

Nonsense.

Asperger's guy here. Been researching autism and Asperger's for several years (obsessively, of course).

Great, go for it.

If you knew the first thing about Asperger's (of which I am not persuaded), you would know that not everyone with Asperger's is brilliant, or of even average intelligence. None of us can be regarded as 'retarded', or we wouldn't be eligible for the Asperger's label.

That's why I referenced Positive Disintegration, the Wikipedia article on giftedness, the BBC's Battle of the Brains and more. You can also cross-reference that with the Prometheus Society's article "the Outsiders" which includes notes from Terman's study on giftedness. They all, of course, overlap in results which I apply when judging.

The ad-hominems will be ignored.

[*]You have 'diagnosed' an idol of yours with Asperger's hoping that this, along with 'auto-didact' (why not say self-educated?)

Because auto-didact is a distinct category beyond simple self-education.

will somehow make him automatically brilliant
[*]You haven't provided us with any evidence that you understand anything about Asperger's
[*]While having extraordinarily little exposure to music, let alone good music, you make grandiose statements that we are expected to take at face value
[*]You have gushed like a schoolgirl (sorry, schoolgirls) rather than provide us with any evidence, or even vague gestures, of his obvious god-like supremacy
[/LIST]I could go on and on, but why beat a dead horse.

See above for a small sampling of my cross-references that I use in addition to Asperger's symptoms to judge intelligence. You were gravely mistaken in your attempted assumption that I used solely the criteria of Asperger's to assign a measure of intelligence. Which doesn't surprise me.

 

[EGarrett]

Both psychologists and psychiatrists are authorities when it comes to issues like Asperger's.

No. Asperger's is not a medical condition and doesn't require prescription drugs to treat. Therefore a diagnosis is the realm of psychologists and not psychiatrists.

The rest of your ad hominem nonsense is ignored.

 

[EGarrett]

I don't compete.

I don't need to.

I seriously doubt our areas of knowledge in music overlap very much. I focus on what I find to be of greatest value. While tastes differ, most of the music that I love has already stood the test of time.

I am a writer.

You were a 'story analyst'.

Enough said.

Oh don't back down so easily. Come on champ, educate me. You think you're "brilliant," right? So it should be easy.

 

[Complexity]

Because auto-didact is a distinct category beyond simple self-education.

No, 'auto-didact' is simply the kind of phrase that someone like you loves to use.

Your sources for your 'research' on Asperger's require no comment.

When I came back to these forums after being gone for about a year, I gave everyone a fresh chance.

When this thread began, I didn't remember who you were. I remember now.

 

[Complexity]

No. Asperger's is not a medical condition and doesn't require prescription drugs to treat. Therefore a diagnosis is the realm of psychologists and not psychiatrists.

Nonsense.

If I weren't on medications for my Asperger's-comorbid conditions, I wouldn't be alive today.

We don't have psychiatric drugs to treat Asperger's yet, in large part because Asperger's is a pattern of neuron formation and neuron wiring in the brain that has many side-effects that vary signficantly between individuals with Asperger's.

There are a great many conditions that are either symptoms of Asperger's or conditions that often found together with Asperger's (i.e. comorbid conditions). Many of these conditions are treatable (but not curable) through psychiatric medication.

I have been diagnosed with three of these comorbid conditions: Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, and Dysthymia (a form of long-term depression). Taking the right antidepressant in the right dose keeps most of the symptoms for these conditions, and a few other symptoms of Asperger's, under control.

It is bad enough that you imagine you are some 'expert' on Aspergers.

It is far worse when you start giving out bad information. Please stop it.

 

[Cleon]

No. Asperger's is not a medical condition and doesn't require prescription drugs to treat. Therefore a diagnosis is the realm of psychologists and not psychiatrists.

No idea how you could be more wrong about that.

The rest of your ad hominem nonsense is ignored.

As I said: if you think I've personally attacked you, you are free to report the post and another moderator or admin will judge the merit of your claim.

 

[EGarrett]

I haven't said it was a bad song. I have only said that, like the rest of what Oasis did, it is not a stand-out for creativity or originality. I don't see any reason to think it will be widely appreciated in the future. This in contrast to Shakespeare's works.

Sorry, I haven't anything to say on your other comments. We seem to be talking past each other.

In fairness, the polls listed on wikipedia were conducted 10 and 11 years after the song was released. That's not a small amount of time given the way most pop music fades out so quickly. And just to be clear, Shakespeare seems obviously to be an outstanding writer. I have a much higher opinion of him, given what I've been able to study, than Tolstoy for example...who actually questioned Shakespeare's talent and not just a language barrier. If you want to find a real assault on Shakespeare's reputation to get angry about, that's the one.

 

[Cleon]

In fairness, the polls listed on wikipedia were conducted 10 and 11 years after the song was released. That's not a small amount of time given the way most pop music fades out so quickly. And just to be clear, Shakespeare seems obviously to be an outstanding writer. I have a much higher opinion of him, given what I've been able to study, than Tolstoy for example...who actually questioned Shakespeare's talent and not just a language barrier. If you want to find a real assault on Shakespeare's reputation to get angry about, that's the one.

Believe it or not, that's actually the type of criticism I would respect. Some of what Shakespeare wrote was, IMO, absolute schlock (I'm thinking specifically of Romeo & Juliet). But even in his "worst" plays, his use of language and prose was masterful.

 

[EGarrett]

No idea how you could be more wrong about that.

The article in question is referring to psychotic and schizophrenic symptoms which aren't inherent in Asperger's and are actually the province of psychiatry.

You'll have to Google better.

As I said: if you think I've personally attacked you, you are free to report the post and another moderator or admin will judge the merit of your claim.

I'll handle it the way I said I was going to handle it. Thank you.

 

[Complexity]

The article in question is referring to psychotic and schizophrenic symptoms which aren't inherent in Asperger's and are actually the province of psychiatry.

You'll have to Google better.

"It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work."

- W. Somerset Maugham

Research is far more than blasting a few keyphases in Google or YouTube and thinking you've accomplished something.

Research requires a prepared mind, years of experience, and the willingness to try to understand, learning what is necessary to accomplish the task.

You've already shown us how short you fall in this regard when it comes to Shakespeare.

 

[Cleon]

The article in question is referring to psychotic and schizophrenic symptoms which aren't inherent in Asperger's and are actually the province of psychiatry.

Spin it however you want. I can't help but wonder why psychiatrists are evaluating medical treatment of Asperger's if AS is solely the purview of psychologists.

I'll handle it the way I said I was going to handle it. Thank you.

Yes, that much is obvious. You're happy to whine about non-existent personal attacks, but won't actually do anything about it.

 

[EGarrett]

No, 'auto-didact' is simply the kind of phrase that someone like you loves to use.

No, self-education doesn't properly reflect the degree or causes of the process. Autodidact is more descriptive and invites further explanation, especially from people who may not have heard the term, where more information can be revealed.

Your sources for your 'research' on Asperger's require no comment.

A non-response. I thought you thought you were brilliant and knew more than I did? Come on, people like you are my favorite. I'm waiting...

When I came back to these forums after being gone for about a year, I gave everyone a fresh chance.

When this thread began, I didn't remember who you were. I remember now.

Yet another poster eager to sling insults who quickly backs down and makes excuses when they're challenged to back it up. What a shock.

 

[EGarrett]

Nonsense.

If I weren't on medications for my Asperger's-comorbid conditions, I wouldn't be alive today.

Comorbid means psychiatric conditions that are co-occurring and thus not inherent to Asperger's itself.

We don't have psychiatric drugs to treat Asperger's yet, in large part because Asperger's is a pattern of neuron formation and neuron wiring in the brain that has many side-effects that vary signficantly between individuals with Asperger's.

And many causes, many of which are not actually a result of subnormal rational functioning and, in reality, are the result of supernormal rational functioning.

There are a great many conditions that are either symptoms of Asperger's or conditions that often found together with Asperger's (i.e. comorbid conditions). Many of these conditions are treatable (but not curable) through psychiatric medication.

And which aren't inherent in Asperger's itself.

I have been diagnosed with three of these comorbid conditions: Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, and Dysthymia (a form of long-term depression). Taking the right antidepressant in the right dose keeps most of the symptoms for these conditions, and a few other symptoms of Asperger's, under control.

Congratulations.

It is bad enough that you imagine you are some 'expert' on Aspergers.

It is far worse when you start giving out bad information. Please stop it.

Your reference to comorbidity instead of Asperger's itself shows that you aren't properly categorizing the information or the argument. I'd love for you or anyone else to show me how bad my information is...but you don't seem to be doing a good job of it.

 

[Complexity]

EGarrett - You are doing a great many people a real disservice.

Please find some safer topics to engage in.

 

[EGarrett]

Believe it or not, that's actually the type of criticism I would respect. Some of what Shakespeare wrote was, IMO, absolute schlock (I'm thinking specifically of Romeo & Juliet). But even in his "worst" plays, his use of language and prose was masterful.

No one is questioning Shakespeare's mastery of language and prose. What exactly is it that you think I'm saying?

 

[Noztradamus]

I love Shakespeare. Who's Noel Galloway?

Isn't he the guy that smashes watermelons?

 

[Cleon]

No one is questioning Shakespeare's mastery of language and prose.

Well, except the guy who called it "*********** gibberish."

 

[Sideroxylon]

No one is questioning Shakespeare's mastery of language and prose. What exactly is it that you think I'm saying?

Noel Gallagher is a misunderstood genius?