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Noah's Ark found?

.
The cross section of a standard Man of War in the late age of sail.
All the construction techniques had to be developed by centuries of trial and error.
Many of these would be mandatory in the Ark for it to survive, and yet, it was the only boat of its size in that era.
None of the others were as long, or even decked, and yet that Ark had three of them.
The engineering of the construction was, in Cecil B. Demille's simple two word phrase, "Im possible" at that time, nor for a thousand or more years in the future.
Especially by land dwelling goat chasers.

Tnx for the pic.

I was raised Catholic and the Flood story was always treated as "one of those old testament stories" to be used as a morals lesson rather than treated as a real event.

Sort of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge kind of thing.
 
Which proves nothing. Judst because somtheing has survival value doesn't mean it will change into something else or was the origin of something else. That's a baseless assumption which can't be demonstratedin a laboratory. You accept it on blind faith

You really should read some books about evolution,but your spelling and orthography indicate that you would have a hard time doing so.
 
Really? Flatworms aren't vertabrates. They are invertbrates. Fifth grders are supposed to know that indeed that is your level of understanding then the subject is beyond your ken.



Which proves nothing. Judst because somtheing has survival value doesn't mean it will change into something else or was the origin of something else. That's a baseless assumption which can't be demonstratedin a laboratory. You accept it on blind faith.




Yes I did.

1) My point that flatworms have eyes is specifically in reference to their being invertebrates. What I said was that, since eyes were around before there were vertebrates, you wouldn't expect to find a vertebrate skull without eye-sockets. I think I was quite clear on that. The only way you could get out of that the idea that I thought flatworms were vertebrates is to deliberately misread it.

2) My reference to the survival value of very simple eyes was in rebuttal to you argument that an entire system, such as the camera eye, thad to be assembled in finished form an couldn't evolve, because if everything wasn't working perfectly it would be useless. My point is that even not very good eyes do have a survival value. Apparently yo missed that point.

3) No, you really haven't answered the question about my proposed genetic drift experiment. You've simply dodged it.
 
AGAIN!
Sir! I took biology classes in college and read biology textbooks sall the time. They are poart of my personal library.

Really?
I am indeed surprised.


So your typical assumption that people who don't accept your fish ancestor as true is totally unfounded. Actually it constitutes fallacious reasoning. Hasty conclusion based on insufficient evidence motivated by prejudice.

No, no it does not.
It is my personal experience that evolution denialists are only familiar with the Creationists' strawman of it.
Polls tell us that the acceptance of Evolution correlates with education; the percentage of trained biological scientists that accept evolution is significantly higher (99.9%) than the percentage within the general population.
So, no, it's not a fallacious argument, it's a very reasonable and well supported assumption.

Of course, you might be the rare exception to the rule that I am sure exists somewhere.

BTW
I don't like to be wrongfully accused or falsly described or categorized by people who are more than likely less educated than me and don't even know how to reason properly.

And yet...

You place great value on seeing now. Yet without seeing transitional forms in the rvolution record

Except that every species is either transitional or going extinct. In fact, the fossil record is chock full of species that are clearly transitional between two surrounding specimen.



you accept it as fact. No demand to see there. Furthermore, punctuated equilibrium, or rapid evolutionary changes you accept. But of course not rapid enough to account for post flood speciation. Isn't that a bit inconsistent?

Ponctuated equilibrium = Rapid evolution over tenth of thousands of years rather than millions.
Flood creationism apologetic = Rapid evolution over hundreds of years.

There is at least a factor 100 between the two, so, no, nothing inconsistent.



Show me a socketless skull. Then show me, via fossils, the gradual depressions as the skull developes sockets over millions of years. Then show me transitional forms of the skull as it gradually developes eyes.

You DO realize the ossification and skulls did evolve LONG after the eyes; right?


Explain to me in detail via those discovered fopssils just how each eye part developed and what the area called the occipetal lobe was doing in the meantime and why.

YOu mean, something like that?



What were these different eye parts doing for millions of years before they unanimously AGREED to hook up as a finely coordinated team in order to make visioin possible? After all, one part would be useless for vision without the others. So what benefit was the supposed or mythical blind creature deriving from lugging around a partially developed optic nerve? Sho ing me the fossils of these transitory stages shouldn't be hard since there werre supposed to be millions of them.

Eye spot works fine on its own.
Other part evolved or where coopted later. That's actually a pretty discredited argument.





But snce you can't, then you invent punctuated equilibrium. It's a sort of a game-isn't it?

Ooooh... Now I see it. You don't know what punctuated equilibrium is!
You believe that it is some sort of super-jumped up evolution that scientists use to justify fast forward evolution which did not leave a fossil record (a bit like the post-deluvian super-evolution creationists made up).
It's not the case. "Punctuated equilibrium" refers to changing rate of evolution, but it's still evolution, with the same mechanism and the same evidences in the fossil record.



Perhaps for the same reason that I don't see your punctuated equilibrium sprrouting new speciies all over the place today? Your question is applicable to your evolution idea. Yet it doesn't faze you one bit. But you want it to faze me? Strange!

But... We do see evolution spouting new species (punctuated equilibrium is about rate of evolution, it is not a mechanism on itself, BTW) all over the place.




You see, I was almost going to apologize if my (not matter how justified) assumptions offended you.
Now, I won't.

Clearly, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
You might have taken a class in biology, but it must have been at Liberty University (or, maybe, a very basic one, given a long time ago), you might have read textbooks, but it must have been Creationist ones. At least, you never actually LEARNED much about them.
Or you were lying through your teeth when you pretended to have taken this class. After all, you pretended not to know where the term 'Intelligent Designer' came from, and yet, you seem well versed in the creationists arguments and quote their websites quite extensively.
 

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No position whatsoever.

So it doesn't require miracles AND you don't think it's scientific. I'm genuinely confused.

Perhaps for the same reason that I don't see your punctuated equilibrium sprrouting new speciies all over the place today? Your question is applicable to your evolution idea. Yet it doesn't faze you one bit. But you want it to faze me? Strange!

You keep referring to "my" evolution idea. I've already said that for the purposes of this discussion I'm okay with making no assumptions about the validity of modern evolutionary science. Throw it right out the window.

Saying "Well I don't think theory X makes sense, so mine doesn't need to either!" doesn't come even close to defending your theory. We don't need to compare this to any other theory in order to evaluate it.

Once more: If things worked the way you say, it would be plainly visible due to the incredibly rapid evolution. It is not. Doesn't that prove it doesn't work that way?
 
Typical, I post a long winded answer and, by the point I hit the "submit" button, all my points have been addressed...
Now I will go and pout.


Ps; alternate explanation could be that Radrook is but a troll, pulling our collective Mickey.
In which case, he certainly did his homework in term of Creationist lingo...
 
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That is not believed to be the case. The change in climate along with geographical isolation would have induced adaptation and eventual speciation creating the great varieties seen today. If true, there would have been no need to deal with animals such as penguins who need very low temperatures.

Since that's already been thrashed out pretty well in subsequent posts, I'll just note that you didn't address the problem with the bacteria. They were certainly around. Or did nobody die of disease either?

And then there's the other question in my post... how did Noah release the animals so the preditors woudn't kill the prey and what did the preditors eat until the prey had enough spare offspring to be killed?

Has anybody touched on the issue of plants, yet, and how they survived the flood?
 
Curiosity.


Another lie.

You are trying to prop up the ridiculous stories of your belief system which, since you claim your bibble is the word of your 'god', you are stuck with.

You are one of the least curious people that I've encountered on this forum - there is no room in your worldview for anything new.
 
You know, I could have sworn that you were critical of me within the last day for behavior that you are indulging in now.
I am not the one engaging in bigotry here.

If you are coming to the defense of another bigot, you are welcome to ponder the meaning of the word ... Hypocrite.

If you think I am being curmudgeonly, I already admitted to you that I often trend that way, in that conversation, so no, not hypocrisy here.

One is not required to be without blemish to make a criticism. If that were the case, you and I would each have to wear a muzzle. ;)

DR
 
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This thread is growing too fast to read all the posts. So sorry if this has been posted.

I wonder if anyone saw the 700 Club's news coverage of this? They were reporting from the Christian Science Monitor, which actually is a decent news agency in between the religious commentary. You can watch the whole segment here. There are worthwhile clips of the expedition on the segment. They showed videos of the investigators climbing through ice crevices into the inside of various structures. That was not consistent with just spiking the mountainside with some old timbers.

The CS Monitor article is here. The CS Monitor noted these guys presented their discovery in a news conference without any scientific peer review of the evidence or conclusions. That is consistent with the fraud hypothesis.

Maybe they found an iced over ancient shelter. Maybe the whole thing is an elaborate fraud. Time will tell, hopefully.



On a separate note, the 700 Club newscaster (not Pat Robertson) gave the typical cherry picked full of poor logic reasons one should believe the Bible. He noted geologists would say there was no evidence of a worldwide flood, biologists would say all the species wouldn't fit on the ark, but anthropologists find flood stories all over the world. Wel;l d'uh, floods are common.

Then he went on to describe an Aztec flood story that included everything in the Noah story up to the sending out a dove which didn't return indicating the water had receded. Ooooh, we should be impressed at this magical coincidence. Just ignore all the science because a coincidence in two ancient myths translated thousands of years later sound similar. Never mind all the other aspects of Aztec belief, the multiple gods, the different creation story, .....

But it is even worse than that. As I looked for confirmation of this Aztec flood myth to see how close the real story was to the 700 Club's version, it turns out there are many Mesoamerica flood myths, many versions of the same myths, the flood myth in question isn't some major Aztec myth and certainly not in the version repeated on the 700 Club. And what do you know? There are myths which were altered to include Christian themes!


Just ignore all evidence that disproves your beliefs and grossly distort evidence to make it fit. What fools.
 
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