no serial numbers were identified from flight 77

[George 152]

DNA can't prove that someone is dead.

Wrong.
The samples presented to the Labs would have had a rather noticeable whiff about them.
As well as cellular deterioration

 

[T.A.M.]

Wrong.
The samples presented to the Labs would have had a rather noticeable whiff about them.
As well as cellular deterioration

Yes but that only proves that the sample was damaged in this way. It does not tell you if the original source of the DNA is truly dead.

TAM

 

[jhunter1163]

"stay in one piece" is unrelated to recovery of DNA strands.

You appear to be completely ignorant about DNA and DNA forensics.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

Fixed that for you.

And, Roger, I don't believe you in this thread either.

 

[BigAl]

Fixed that for you.

But to not make a specific claim would have made me guilty of a <rule something or other> personal attack.

 

[jhunter1163]

Ultima:

I don't believe you when you post.
I don't believe you when you boast.

I don't believe you're NSA.
I don't believe you, anyway.

I don't believe you, here or there.
I don't believe you, anywhere.

I think you're on a trolling scam,
I think you're trolling, Sam I am.

 

[Gaspode]

Some posts moved to AAH.

Remember to attack the argument, not the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I did not think they found any bodies at flight 93's site?

For the record, no bodies were found in the crash site of valujet 592. The largest fragments of the passengers they found (and forgive the graphic details) was an ear. That plane crashed into a wetland with a several foot thick layer of peat, and a limestone bedrock. Flight 93 crashed at an even steeper angle and much much faster. What exactly are you expecting to find? Because If I work based on your standard, there must not have been passengers riding on valujet 592

 

[TJM]

For the record, no bodies were found in the crash site of valujet 592. The largest fragments of the passengers they found (and forgive the graphic details) was an ear. That plane crashed into a wetland with a several foot thick layer of peat, and a limestone bedrock. Flight 93 crashed at an even steeper angle and much much faster. What exactly are you expecting to find? Because If I work based on your standard, there must not have been passengers riding on valujet 592

Or flights 11 and 175 for that matter, and I hate to sound like a broken record but I will keep trotting it out until truthers finally acknowledge it: PSA 1771.

 

[Reheat]

I hate to keep bringing this one up, but it's appropriate for the current discussion. I walked through the crash site of an F-111D, which crashed in Eastern New Mexico during a night range mission. It impacted Mother Earth in a very shallow rate of descent, but at about 500 Kts.

The only pieces of wreckage identifiable as to type of aircraft were the two engines. The largest piece of human (two crew members) was a jawbone. Most of the body parts were about .25 size. Yet, the pilots helmet visor survived intact without a scratch.

E = MV²
That velocity² is a killer in a crash.....

There is no link and no photos as AF aircraft accidents are not published on the Intertube.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

There is no link and no photos as AF aircraft accidents are not published on the Intertube.

There was a series of accident photos fom an incident aboard a US Navy warship where the LSE (landing signalman) was struck in the head by the rotor during a shipboard helicopter landing. His head was utterly destroyed, skull fragments practically stuck to the cranial headpiece.

I'm sure whoever leaked those photos got a severe talking-to if not worse.

 

[BigAl]

On a tangent and with no point except that human bodies in high-speed accidents do the damnedest things, as kids we saw this two-plane collision at about 4k ft. from the windows of our grade school. One passenger lived long enough to be carried to a hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_New_York_air_disaster​

We were picking up bits of aluminum and fiberglass all over the community. I knew people that had parts (aircraft and/or human) in their yards.

United Airlines Flight 826, Mainliner Will Rogers, registration N8013U, was a Douglas DC-8 en route from O'Hare Airport in Chicago to New York International (Idlewild) Airport in New York City, New York, on December 16, 1960.

Trans World Airlines Flight 266, Star of Sicily, registration N6907C, was a Lockheed Super Constellation en route from Dayton and Columbus, Ohio, to New York's LaGuardia Airport.

The two aircraft collided in mid-air in heavy clouds a mile west of Miller Field, a military airfield [*] on Staten Island, at 10:33 a.m. Eastern Time. Weather conditions at the time were light rain and fog (which had been preceded by a snowfall).

According to information from the United's flight recorder (the first time a "black box" had been used to provide extensive details in a crash investigation) the United plane was 12 miles (19 km) off course and in 81 seconds dived 3,600 feet (1,100 m) a minute and dropped its speed from more than 500 miles per hour (800 km/h) to 363 miles per hour (584 km/h) when it slammed into the right side of the TWA plane at between 5,250 and 5,175 feet (1,577 m).[1]

* Miller field was a grass-strip airfield used mostly for Civil Air Patrol at the time.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

How do you know it was UA826's FDR? Where is the report with the serial number?

 

[beachnut]

Do you have the serial numbers matched to the plane?

There is no coroner report that they were in the building, so your guess is as good as mine.

What are serial numbers used for? In case the parts were a cause in an accident. Ultima1 has no clue why serial numbers are used or he would present cogent reason. He has not.

The plane was identified by RADAR and FDR. The FDR had over 25 hours of flights from 77 in data stored in the FDR. This makes it a positive identification it was from 77 and it makes 77 impacting the Pentagon a positive identification; to say otherwise is pure stupidity.
You can't produce a single fact where it is necessary to have serial numbers for identification when you know the planes involved.

757 parts were found in the Pentagon; How many 757s were missing on 911? Two; one 757 found in PA, one found in the Pentagon. A FDR was found PA with one 757, and one in the Pentagon. They were different models! The one found in the Pentagon was the type used on Flight 77, and the one in PA was the type used on Flight 93. Next we decode each FDR; the one found in the Pentagon showed it took off from the same airport where 77 took off from; the FDR in PA decoded to show it took off on 911 from the same airport 93 took off from. There were only two 757s missing on 911, they were found in the Pentagon and in PA.
The RADAR tracks for 93 and 77 verify this fact; double verification.

RADAR for 93. Evidence.

RADAR for 77. More evidence.

The coroner report? The body parts were taken from the Pentagon and identified. Are you presenting proof the body parts are not from the Pentagon? Do you have fact to prove the DNA results are fake? No, you have nothing but the worse investigating skills. There is an after action report by the Navy about their liaison office with the medical examiner. You make up lies about 911 how heartless with respect to the people identified for you to make up lies.

Why are you evidence free?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

There is a report by the Navy on overseeing the DNA efforts; why would they do that?

Maybe I'm confused. I thought USAF Col. Abu-Bakr Marzouk was in charge, at least initially.

Was the guy calling that shots at AFIP a Navy man? I honestly can't remember right now.

 

[beachnut]

Maybe I'm confused. I thought USAF Col. Abu-Bakr Marzouk was in charge, at least initially.

Was the guy calling that shots at AFIP a Navy man? I honestly can't remember right now.

The Navy had 55 casualties. They set up a Navy Liaison Office with the Port Mortuary at Dover AFB. http://www.aal77.com/nhc/nlo_dover.pdf This link will be moving soon

 

[apathoid]

Has ULTIMA yet provided a source that says the NTSB must match serial numbers to the aircraft for "positive identification"(I hate to a Balsa-ism)?

I saw I blip where he posted something to the effect that the NTSB "may use"..." in rare circumstances" serial numbers from parts to help ID a plane. I guess one example would be a midair collision of same model aircraft, or where the aircraft didnt have an FDR installed, or like in the Adam Air accident in Indonesia where the investigators had absolutely no idea where it went down. I've seen nothing about this regulation that requires serial numbers to be matched. I reckon thats because there isn't one.

 

[beachnut]

Has ULTIMA yet provided a source that says the NTSB must match serial numbers to the aircraft for "positive identification"(I hate to a Balsa-ism)?

I saw I blip where he posted something to the effect that the NTSB "may use"..." in rare circumstances" serial numbers from parts to help ID a plane. I guess one example would be a midair collision of same model aircraft, or where the aircraft didnt have an FDR installed, or like in the Adam Air accident in Indonesia where the investigators had absolutely no idea where it went down. I've seen nothing about this regulation that requires serial numbers to be matched. I reckon thats because there isn't one.

I can't think of a reason serial numbers are used to identify a plane. When we lost aircraft in the USAF we knew which plane it was without any serial numbers. Same for 911.

The dumbest ideas are those who compare the NTSB accident reports that have serial numbers to 911. The NTSB did not do accident reports for 911, it was a crime - no serial numbers were posted in the work the NTSB did for the FBI. Is it a legal issue? NTSB reports have special legal status not like other reports.

To ensure that Safety Board investigations focus only on improving transportation safety, the Board's analysis of factual information and its determination of probable cause cannot be entered as evidence in a court of law.

So the NTSB can use serial numbers because their findings have some sort of privilege.

No wonder the serial numbers are left out of work done for the FBI, there is no protection. Geewhiz...

In cases of suspected criminal activity, other agencies may participate in the investigation. The Safety Board does not investigate criminal activity; in the past, once it has been established that a transportation tragedy is, in fact, a criminal act, the FBI becomes the lead federal investigative body, with the NTSB providing any requested support.

 

[apathoid]

I can't think of a reason serial numbers are used to identify a plane. When we lost aircraft in the USAF we knew which plane it was without any serial numbers. Same for 911.

The dumbest ideas are those who compare the NTSB accident reports that have serial numbers to 911. The NTSB did not do accident reports for 911, it was a crime - no serial numbers were posted in the work the NTSB did for the FBI. Is it a legal issue? NTSB reports have special legal status not like other reports. So the NTSB can use serial numbers because their findings have some sort of privilege.

No wonder the serial numbers are left out of work done for the FBI, there is no protection. Geewhiz...

I tried giving ULTIMA a serial number quiz ealier in the thread, hinting what they are and how they are useful. Not shocked to see that my post went unswered by all the usual suspects.

 

[ULTIMA1]

I'm guessing like all deniers, Ultima is trying to find any small discrepancy to wedge in doubt, in order to absolve the true perpetrators.

A perfect example of "no holes, no Holocaust".

Its just too bad there are so many discrepencies in the official story even someone with basic common sense should be able to see it.

 

[beachnut]

I tried giving ULTIMA a serial number quiz ealier in the thread, hinting what they are and how they are useful. Not shocked to see that my post went unswered by all the usual suspects.

He can't learn, or use logic, and lacks sound judgement.

-Why do aircraft parts have serial numbers? How are they useful?
-Does every part have one?
-If not, why do some parts have serial numbers and not others?
-How are serial numbers displayed on parts?(ie magic marker, etched or engraved in the part, label maker, affixed with a data plate ?)
-And is there a "gold standard" for how a part must display a serial number?
-Is it ok if a serialized part gets swapped out with another to aid in troubleshooting?
-Related to the above, what would it mean if they maintenance record showed serial # 001 as being installed, when in fact, # 003 was installed?
-Does a serial number say anything about the type of aircraft it is assigned?
-What are some basic steps to follow if one must replace a serialized part?

He can't answer question.