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No he's not!

Warp12 said:
Well, I am not really too passionate about it. He was very successful, considering the "easy mode with amateur tricks", though. And that is indicative of a different sort of talent. Some may not like it, but even being a good con man is a talent. You don't have to respect it, but you have to recognize it, at least.
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I recognize it just fine: He was a mediocre con man in a target-rich environment.
 
theprestige said:
Yes, yes. He's the Kim Kardashian of the spoon bending set. Now do Salt Bae.
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Meh. Geller Seems to have had a unique combination of talents that brought him his fame and fortune. I imagine he was not as good of an Illusionist as even Randi...but he knew how to sell it. Even in the face of the adversary that his detractors brought.
 
Warp12 said:
What do you think about his skills at his peak?
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:dl:

He had no skills.

Warp12 said:
He had a pretty good game, right? I mean, in some ways, perhaps his best illusion was getting people to believe it was real.
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No, his only talent was to home in the people who are one of the "one born every minute".

Warp12 said:
Meh. Geller Seems to have had a unique combination of talents that brought him his fame and fortune. I imagine he was not as good of an Illusionist as even Randi...but he knew how to sell it. Even in the face of the adversary that his detractors brought.
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Srsly?

There's no art to fleecing suckers, and he didn't appear to be any better at it than countless other con-artists. Take a look at how many televangelists cruise around in private jets - that's who you should be comparing him to, and he has a fraction of their money.
 
How does your net worth stack up to his? Maybe it is greater?

How many millions are you worth, and what is your relative talent level, in his field?
 
Bending a mass of steel that large requires a lot of energy. If only he could put all that energy into a practical application then us skeptics would concede PK is real.
 
Steve001 said:
Bending a mass of steel that large requires a lot of energy. If only he could put all that energy into a practical application then us skeptics would concede PK is real.
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In other words, I think it was Randi who said "If he's using mental powers to bend a spoon, he's doing it the hard way."
 
Warp12 said:
How does your net worth stack up to his? Maybe it is greater?
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No, I'm sure he's worth a lot more than me, but I chose to expose frauds rather than become one.

Your defence and admiration of him says a lot about you.
 
The Atheist said:
No, I'm sure he's worth a lot more than me, but I chose to expose frauds rather than become one.

Your defence and admiration of him says a lot about you.
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I'm a bit of a realist, I suppose. While I might not agree with some people's methods of achieving success, I do realize that it usually requires talent to rise above those around you. He clearly must have been talented in some ways.

Any argument against Geller, it seems to me, is more of an emotional one. That is why I asked about a list of those whose lives he ruined.

If Randi did say that Geller "ruined lives", I would hope we could make a list and support that as fact.
 
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Alongside pop memorabilia, there are all kinds of curiosities: a crystal ball from Salvador Dali, which is said to have belonged to Leonardo da Vinci; a model plane from the late Libyan dictator, Muammar Gaddafi; and a golden egg, which John Lennon claimed came from aliens.
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So much to see. I can't wait to check it out on my next visit.
 
Warp12 said:
I'm a bit of a realist, I suppose. While I might not agree with some people's methods of achieving success, I do realize that it usually requires talent to rise above those around you. He clearly must have been talented in some ways.
...snip
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Sometimes it requires talent, sometimes it requires little more than a willingness to suspend one's moral compass. Most people can suspend their moralily at a small scale and on small stages. Few have the nerve -- and lack of qualms -- to go big.

That was the "talent" he had which distinguished him from respectable illusionists, and which opened a niche those performers avoided. If you want to call that a "successful talent," why not? I don't know why anyone would admire it, though.
 
theprestige said:
"Rise above."
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I think he rose above many in his field, in terms of success. Do you disagree?

I mean, he was much more prolific and influential in popular culture than say, Randi, imo. Geller seems to me to have been a phenom, while many probably see Randi as just another critic. For better or worse.

I don't take offense at Geller's claims, because I just see them as another part of his act. An illusion of an even more grand nature.
 
Warp12 said:
I'm a bit of a realist, I suppose. While I might not agree with some people's methods of achieving success, I do realize that it usually requires talent to rise above those around you. He clearly must have been talented in some ways.

Any argument against Geller, it seems to me, is more of an emotional one. That is why I asked about a list of those whose lives he ruined.

If Randi did say that Geller "ruined lives", I would hope we could make a list and support that as fact.
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How is he different from any other criminal? A hacker needs skill to pull off cyber theft as well.
 
For what it's worth, I have always been baffled by him.
By both how many people bought into him and the fact that he was once considered a major sex symbol. Like really?

Pixel42 said:
Didn't he pretty much admit that he was just a showman a few years back?
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I believe that Randi once said that he cannot ever fully admit that he was a fraud because then he would admit to lying under oath or whatever when he was investigated by the CIA or whatever it was that investigated and actually bought his stupid act.

If I recall, he basically said something in his speech like "You have to admit that if I am a fraud, then it's one of the greatest ones" or something like that.

Basically saying he is without saying the actual words.

Olmstead said:
How is he different from any other criminal?
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Because he did it big time and got to do it on prime time tv and he is a cultural phenomenon that keeps being mentioned on television for over several decades.
He was on a question on the UK chaser just this week.

There are probably thousands if not millions of quacks around the world. Very few of them got to his level of recognition.

The analogy above to Kim Kardashian is spot on. We can laugh at her all we want, but she's laughing harder to the bank. Millions want to be like her. A miniscule of them have actually succeeded.
 
To me, it's about as impressive as a guy making millions taking a dive in a fight. Much in the same way he's convinced the fans that he's there to win a fight, but really he's deceiving people into thinking that for his own personal gain, Uri Gellar convinces people he can do things with his mind that he cannot. Is the most convincing dive in boxing history impressive? Greatest points shaver of all time? Milli Vanilli sold a lot of concert tickets without ever singing a note, how impressive is that?

Much like Geller's body of work, you're impressed by the illusion of an achievement.
 
If he were doing it purely to entertain, I could be interested in considering if his showmanship was worth admiring. However by promoting ignorance by passing off tricks as genuine psychic ability, I've no interest.

Someone dumps a bucket of toxic waste into a water supply, can I point to which person was harmed? Not usually. But it was still a bucket of toxic waste, and I don't care how good he was at handling the bucket or getting people to let him do it.
 
dirtywick said:
To me, it's about as impressive as a guy making millions taking a dive in a fight.
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If said guy was taking a dive for several decades and still carrying on, you would have a point.

Again to go with the previous comparison of the Kardashians, plenty of celebrities had their sex tapes leaked. But who else other than Kim Kardashian made millions off of it? Okay, maybe Paris Hilton.

But out of the hundreds or more who had that happen to them, none came close and for a lot it was an absolute career killer.

Kardashians turned it into a gold mine.

You can say you don't think Kim Kardashian is talented, but she clearly is, considering that again, very few people succeed in doing what she does.
Millions try and almost all of them fail.

You could say it was dumb luck, but dumb luck can't carry you around for decades.

Now is Kim Kardashian someone I think is a good person? No.
Would I teach my (non existing) child to look up to her and be like her? HELL NO.
Do I think she's absolute scum and think she should rot in prison? Well, not really for her, but yes for Geller.

Much like Geller's body of work, you're impressed by the illusion of an achievement.
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His bank account is no illusion. The fact that his name is being mentioned all the time is not an illusion. I just saw a rerun of Are You Being Served and caught his name was dropped there.
A show from the 1970s mentioned him as well as a gameshow in 2021. 50 years and people still talk about him.

The man has a Pokemon named after him for crying out loud.

That is not an illusion.
 
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