No Fly zones over Libya?

BeAChooser said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/02/ivory-coast-massacre-1000-killed-duekoue_n_844000.html "Ivory Coast Massacre: Charity Claims More Than 1,000 Killed In Duekoue"

And just so you know, the author of that article, Michelle Faul, is with Associated Press. Are they a good source?
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Well personaly I was going with the ICRC statement on the basis that they aparently have people there.


But where's Obama? Surely he's not going to leave everything up to France. ;)
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Remeber how this Libya started?
 
geni said:
If you look at the kit in the background of the news shorts (rather than the tapped up AK-47s they like to show to the camera) they've already got the kit to take on anything short of a current generation MBT.
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Which is why they are doing so well. ;)
 
Comment by a veteran Libyan, who the news says served in the special forces of Libya, and who is now a member of the rebels.

"There is no plan."

Without a plan, armed force cannot achieve a particular aim ... one hopes this fellow is wrong.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12953714

6 months...and we'll see where we go from there. Oh that's not very encouraging. The international community is really looking like a bunch of idiots. This has turned into a laughable debacle. The only problem is that it's not funny. Money has been spent, resources have been used, precedents have been set, and people have been killed meanwhile a dictator still stands in defiance laughing at us while the unknown people we are supporting are running around like a chicken with its head cut off .
 
Policenaut said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12953714

6 months...and we'll see where we go from there. Oh that's not very encouraging. The international community is really looking like a bunch of idiots. This has turned into a laughable debacle. The only problem is that it's not funny. Money has been spent, resources have been used, precedents have been set, and people have been killed meanwhile a dictator still stands in defiance laughing at us while the unknown people we are supporting are running around like a chicken with its head cut off .
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All entirely predictable and, indeed, predicted.
 
BeAChooser said:
Which is why they are doing so well. ;)
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If weapons where as important as you seem to think saudi arabia would be a major conventional power and libya would have long since conquered chad.
 
Obama's new allies:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/libyan...afi’s-throat-then-establish-an-islamic-state/

“The Jihadists Go to the Front.” This is the title of French journalist Julien Fouchet’s report from eastern Libya that appears in the latest edition of the French Sunday paper Le Journal du Dimanche (JDD). Whereas American officials have been straining to make out “flickers” of intelligence suggesting a jihadist influence in the eastern Libyan rebellion against the rule of Muammar al-Gaddafi, Fouchet encountered a flagrant jihadist presence and met with participants who talked openly about their dedication to jihad and/or their desire to establish an Islamic state.
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...-using-libyan-conflict-acquire/#ixzz1IZfH8R6E

Al Qaeda is using the ongoing Libyan conflict to acquire weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles, an Algerian security official told Reuters on Monday.

A convoy of trucks carrying weapons smuggled from Libya in recent days has reached Mali in western Africa, where they are expected to end up in the hand of militants from Al Qaeda's north African wing.
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Nice going, Obama.

Coming to an airport near YOU.
 
BeAChooser said:
No, DR. But I fear that may happen now.
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To quote one of your favorite talk show hosts / pundits

"let not your heart be troubled"

Me, I'd rather not take counsel of "our" fears. It's a great way to react, rather than act. :p


If you have not read the recent Newsweek piece on Sarkosy and Levy, the fellow he sent to Libya and sometime political ally, it's a very interesting look at how France led and Obama followed ... a little bit like France urging, urging, urging, and Clinton finally following, in re Kosovo ... similar theme ... but at least, in this case, the French are actually doing some acting and leading, rather than urging on someone to do all of their dirty work for them.

In this regard, President Obama isn't falling for the French line as hard as Clinton did ... but he's still (as I see it) doing heavy bag boxing workouts on a tar baby called Libya. I hope he's got Teflon on the gloves, or he's gonna get stuck as fast as Brer Rabbit was in the folk tale ... :mad:

We shall see. More cards to be played in this poker game.
 
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Darth Rotor said:
Me, I'd rather not take counsel of "our" fears. It's a great way to react, rather than act.
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But sometimes the fears can tell you how to "act" too.

Darth Rotor said:
I hope he's got Teflon on the gloves, or he's gonna get stuck as fast as Brer Rabbit was in the folk tale
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He's already stuck DR. This is his war. And he may now be actively or inadvertently training. arming and recruiting for al-Qaeda. Most troublesome (to me) are the reports that al-Qaeda has already acquired shoulder fired SAMs and chemical weapons as a result of this. As you say, we shall see.
 
Laeke said:
150 soldiers were also sent yesterday. The French Licorne force is protecting the expatriates district. Securing the airport is probably to allow evacuation if need be.

Boosting up the numbers is also obviously a deterrent and a way to allow direct action if the situation calls for it.
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In other words, human shields? Attack here, kill a French soldier, you get carpet bombed?

(hope for Gaddafi's sake no rebel accidentally snipes one - anything bad there is automatically blamed on him, personally)

I gather the bombing isn't going as well, now that a huge chunk of Gaddafi's forces were blown up, and the rest, Gaddafi, personally, is taking a tip from the rebels. Put the **** inside a city. Rebels cry no fair, from inside their no-fly-no-shoot-civilians cities from which they attempt a total takeover with tactical air support from the Europeans and Americans, when available.

Time to expand the mandate, and start hitting cities?

Also, earlier some of us were discussing the mysterious fighter jet that was app. shot down over Benghazi on March 19, just hours before the outside bombing began. I put together all the info I could find, emphasizing the oddity of the whole thing, and put it into an interesting, informative article. Could use some feedback on the significance of the model.
However a rebel official reached by telephone acknowledged the plane was one of their Mirage fighter jets and that it had been downed by loyalists. "It was one of the insurgents' planes. It was downed by Kadhafi's forces. From what I hear the pilot is dead but I cannot confirm that," he said.
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What do rebels hold? Mirages, I guess, and only a few? Cause the jet that crashed seems to be a Mig-27 Flogger D.
Benghazi_jet_comp.jpg
 
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=29283

Libyan government forces shot down two US-built helicopters being used by rebel forces in the east of the country, the deputy foreign minister said early on Sunday.

Khaled Kaim also slammed the international community for allowing rebel forces to operate aircraft despite the existence of a no-fly zone over the country following UN Security Council resolution 1973.

"A clear violation was committed by the rebels to resolution 1973 relating to the no-fly zone. The rebels used two Chinook helicopters and they were shot down" near the eastern oil facilities of Brega, he said. "We have a question for the allied forces — is this resolution made for the Libyan government only or everyone in Libya?"

The report could not be confirmed with the rebels, but journalists in the area did describe seeing at least one helicopter apparently fighting for the rebels in the area Saturday, though it lacked the distinctive double rotor design of Chinook and appeared to be a Russian built model.

Most aircraft used by the Libyans, whether government or rebel forces, are Russian made, however, but the Directory of World Air Forces from 2008 says Libya had 20 Chinooks, which are used primarily for transport and heavy lifting, in service.

While the Libyan government forces still possess most of the military aircraft in the country, a few were taken by the rebels when some air force units defected in the east of the country following popular uprisings against Moammar Gadhafi's four decades of rule.

Nato, which enforces the no-fly zone said it has been has been applying it to both sides and on Saturday intercepted a rebel MiG-23 fighter jet and forced it back to the airport.
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So it IS a two-sided no-fly zone. Rebels fly out a fighter jet, and NATO forces escort it back to the ground. Libyan government surveillance jet was simply shot down near Misurata. No double-standards here.
The French fighter destroyed a Libyan G-2/Galeb, a military trainer aircraft, apparently as it was trying to land, the official said. Other details remained sketchy about the mid-air confrontation.
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http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-24/news/29358614_1_libyan-plane-libyan-air-base-fighter

But the above does show the rebels hold the more widely cited Mig-23. Still no evidence for acknowledging possession of a Mig-27 like the one shot down over Benghazi.
 
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Caustic Logic said:
So it IS a two-sided no-fly zone. Rebels fly out a fighter jet, and NATO forces escort it back to the ground. Libyan government surveillance jet was simply shot down near Misurata. No double-standards here.
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Quackdaffis' G-2 Galeb was threatning civilians more than the rebel MiG. It's called combined arms. Deal with it :)

McHrozni
 
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