No atheists in a foxhole

When I was in and out of foxholes, I was apatheistic. Nowadays, I look back and were I in the same sitch, would still not lean in the theistic direction. In fact, in my experience, even the most dedicated theists DID call upon their gods whilst under fire. But it was often pretty blasphemous and had less to do with prayer than with good, stress-relieving, sound cursing.

I know a Dept of the Army civilian, a logistics specialist, who was sent to Iraq early in the game, and was mortared. He received the nation's highest honors for civilian service, as well as a fair amount of notoriety in his local and in Defense Dept press. He was a strong atheist before the event, remained so during, and is still. He was also a seminary graduate and former protestant minister ... great guy, and knows more about the Bible and Christianity than ANY.ONE. I know.

I can walk out of my office, through the camp, and point out, geez, maybe 1 in 5, who are either unbelievers or are profoundly agnostic or are simply not mainstream -- several Wiccans, a few Asatru(? - Norse revivalists), Zen, and some that pretty much defy description. I know one whitebread young troop who SWEARS he's a follower of Shinto.

Most of the troops are pretty apathetic when it comes to religion. Even if the chaplain comes around and they go through the motions, they still cuss, grabass, talk about who screwed whom, what they're going to to to their bitches (or man-hos) when they get home, etc.

No atheists in foxholes? It's a Christian myth, and one that is transparent and insubstantial as wet tissue. Even the strongest Christians I knew back when, would forget praying when the lead was flying and put their faith in the gods of BCT, M-16A1, M-249, M-203 and the uber-god of Air Force close air support. God loves the A-10 pilots ... and so did we. They're almost as omnimax as a brace of Apaches on the prowl.

Ain't NOTHING like the sound of those chain guns and Hellfires when the sh|t gets thick.
 
It's still going to hurt, albeit it might make it easier to accept the loss.

You obviously never met my Mom's family. Histrionics-R-Us. And ALL Good Christians (tm).

There's a real cult of the dead in some sects of the faith. It's ... vaguely disturbing.
 
I am still forced to talk to the chaplain on occasion but its a very short conversation.

Heya Bro'.

Two of my favorite people here at Graf are the Espiscopal (Spongian) chap and the Methodist chap. Both are GREAT folks and neither are particularly religious (in fact, I'm organizing a drinking trip this weekend and they're invited). I don't know where you are, but around here, maybe I just attract infidels. I know lots of troopies, officers and DA civs who aren't mainstream Xian. A couple we're good friends with almost named the not-quite 1 y.o. son 'Darwin' ... I'm also friendly with the local Wiccan coven convener (or whatever they call 'em). There are LOTS of Wiccans here in uniform.

There's a cultural veneer of the Christian religion, but most follow along because they're 'expected' to, not because they believe.

I'm 'out' as an atheist, and I don't htink anyone in the command doesn't know I am, and I work too damn close to the flagpole, so even the old man has been briefed about me.

No big deal. They also know I'm good buds with the chaplains, so they're just puzzled.
 
If I did need a counselor I would resent the fact that my only option is to see one that will quote bible verses at me. There is a need for mental health specialists in the military I just wish we would get real ones.

If it comes to that, don't let 'em frak with you like that. There IS qualified, non-religious counseling available. If you ever reach that point do NOT accept 'go see the chaplain' as the only answer. Get thee to sick call and request a serious psychological professional or raise whatever stink you have to to circumvent the 'tell it to the chaplain' mentality. Or just TELL the chaplain you want a real, trained, secular professional. If he's got any balls at all, he'll get you a real referral.
 
... NRP on your dogtags would bring, but it seems to signal "Open Season" on you by chaplains of various denominations. ...

Get your own dogtags that state 'atheist'. Brigade Quartermaster, maybe?

Or find a chaplain who's not got his head up his ass and make friends. They;re not ALL fundies or fanatics. Some of 'em are really good folks who truly want to help people, no matter what religion or lack thereof they espouse. Yeah, they're few and far between, but they ARE out there.
 
Eventually I was able to get my records changed to "none".

That's an option, as is the specialty-made dogtag as I stated above. Mine, IIRC, said 'none'.

Probably the most interesting experience I had with them was in 1992 at Dharan Saudi Arabia. I helped our deployed Chaplain (a Catholic) set up our covert chapel for Passover. The affair was officiated by a Rabi flown in from one of the carriers.

That's kind of cool. My ex was in the Army hospital at one point and the Catholic padre came through chatting, hanging out, 'being there' for folks. He was laid back, very cool. I told him I, basically, was unchurched and happy, and she was a Baptist. He was cool with it. We talked a while, found out we both liked single malt whisky and had a great relationship with very little taint of religion, but a distinct smell of malt, after that.

time in a foxhole in combat, but have sat in the front end of a forty year old unarmed aircraft, watching the tracer coming up.

Oooh! I love the Herky birds. A beautiful thing in the right sitch. And the Puffs that fly and fire here are spectacular. A good friend of mine is a C-130 instructor in the Canadian Air Force (or whatever they call it these days).

While I'm not an athiest per se, I'm also not a believer. If pressed I describe myself as a lapsed agnostic (don't know, don't care).

Heh! You're an apatheist.
 
My MOS was journalism. Sigh.

Nothing wrong with 46Q. After I got my shoulder frakked, I reclassed to the MOS. Had good buddies later who were 46Q and R riding tanks and Blackhawks and Bradleys into the grinder in the first Gulf War, Afghanistan and the current, um, action.

Were you slated for Meade or Ben Harrison?
 
On the flip side, would you expect an atheist not to soil his pants and start invoking deities when the firefight starts?

Can't say as I ever crapped my pants, but I knew guys who did. No big deal. In the field, you learn to live with a lot of unpleasantness.

Call on a diety? Only as a curse, i.e.; "Goddamit, incoming!" or "JEsus CHEErist, that muthafukka's going DOWN!" or "HOLY ****, I'm HIT, MEDIC!?!?!"

There's your religion in the foxholes.

Yeah, maybe afterward, there's a lot of praying and thanking god and
't'was a MIRACLE' BS, but in the thick of things, I never saw anybody praying, they were to busy staying alive. Which all put the BS of the religious thing into perspective.

Ain't no atheists in foxholes, they're too busy fighting to be on their knees praying.
 
Ain't no atheists in foxholes, they're too busy fighting to be on their knees praying.

Now there's a sig line if I've ever seen one!

:clap:

You and my wife would get along fine. She did 6 years active service before getting out to be an officer's wife. Still loves nothing better than running into another service person and chatting about the military life. Me? Tried to get in when I was 18, but my eyesight was too bad.
 
You and my wife would get along fine. She did 6 years active service before getting out to be an officer's wife.

Ewww. I hope she got better (sez the old enlisted puke).

Tried to get in when I was 18, but my eyesight was too bad.

Ach. My eyes are horrible these days. Gonna probably lose the right one someday. Damn near legally blind on that side now. Ears are frakked up, too. Left one especially (I'm left-handed). Bad right eye, left ear, right hip, left shoulder ...

Well, I had fun getting this way.

And Hedgewitch is committed to keeping me healthy as possible till she has to sell me to the monkeyhouse.

Jesus, we went on a BIKE ride tonight after work. Phhhbbllltt.

God, I ought to be driving a red sports car and working on my second trophy wife by now and instead I'm getting HEALTHY! Ah well. Still having great fun doing it.

What WAS this topic about originally? Oh yeah, atheists in foxholes. Look here:

http://www.maaf.info/

http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/
 
According to the president athiests are not Americans. As far as I know you have to be a citizen to join up. I am not sure how it works with Puerto Rico there may be exceptions. By that logic we should have very few if any ahteists in foxholes.
 
You and my wife would get along fine. She did 6 years active service before getting out to be an officer's wife.
Ewww. I hope she got better (sez the old enlisted puke).
Well. . . if you logically follow the thread of evidence:

1) I said she was an officer's wife
2) I said that I wasn't able to get into the service.
3) Therefore, I could never have been an officer.
4) Conclusion: This is not her first marriage.

So yeah, she did get better. :D
 
From the Book of References:

Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (M*A*A*F)
www . maaf . info

M*A*A*F is a group for Freethinkers who are active or who served in the armed forces (primarily from the U.S.), or for their families. They serve as a voice for military Freethinkers when abuses occur, and offer quite a few resources.




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The Bible of the Good and Moral Atheist
 

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