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NIST Experts

skepticalcriticalguy said:
I hope you are honest with this list of people who participated in the NIST report. Just because somebody performs a piece of research does not mean that that person necessarily believes in the "findings" of the whole project.
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Except that those people are lead investigators. They did not simply perform some experiments and report the results. The bulk of the NCSTAR is their writing, and their work. So yes, they all believe the findings of the report, and that's why they have affixed their names and credentials to it.
 
uk_dave said:
You mean every steel member that made up the WTC towers was tested and certified by UL?

Is that what you're saying scooby?

Is it?

Think carefully now....
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Think carefully?
You're joking.

No they probably didn't certify ever steel member - I imagine the way it works is like this.

You take a representative sample, for instance a floor truss assembly - and you test that. You use these results to determine the performance of the building as a whole - together with any relevant tests required for other components.

This process works due to strict quality control in modern production processes, which allows us to consider two items in the same batch, as virtually identical.

The one you tested - that only sagged a couple of inches but held - NO - you don't actually use it in the building, it spoils the finish what with the warping - you bin that one, or even maybe store it somewhere for a suitable period.

Was that the bit I was supposed to think carefully about?
 
scooby said:
Think carefully?
You're joking.

No they probably didn't certify ever steel member - I imagine the way it works is like this.

You take a representative sample, for instance a floor truss assembly - and you test that. You use these results to determine the performance of the building as a whole - together with any relevant tests required for other components.

This process works due to strict quality control in modern production processes, which allows us to consider two items in the same batch, as virtually identical.

The one you tested - that only sagged a couple of inches but held - NO - you don't actually use it in the building, it spoils the finish what with the warping - you bin that one, or even maybe store it somewhere for a suitable period.

Was that the bit I was supposed to think carefully about?
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So, you now admit that UL did not certify the steel in the WTC towers.

At last, the cold light of reason cuts through the fog around scooby's head.

UL test assemblies for performance in fire. Not individual steel members. Therefore, they did not, and could not, certify the steel in the towers, only those assemblies constructed from the various steel members.

And as you rightly admit, they do not test every single assembly, but just an indicative sample.

So, you also admit that ryan is a liar.

Cool
 
scooby said:
Think carefully?
You're joking.

No they probably didn't certify ever steel member - I imagine the way it works is like this.

You take a representative sample, for instance a floor truss assembly - and you test that. You use these results to determine the performance of the building as a whole - together with any relevant tests required for other components.

This process works due to strict quality control in modern production processes, which allows us to consider two items in the same batch, as virtually identical.

The one you tested - that only sagged a couple of inches but held - NO - you don't actually use it in the building, it spoils the finish what with the warping - you bin that one, or even maybe store it somewhere for a suitable period.

Was that the bit I was supposed to think carefully about?
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Ah, so you have no idea what the purpose of the UL floor assembly test was, as you've just demonstrated.
 
uk_dave said:
And as you rightly admit, they do not test every single assembly, but just an indicative sample.
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they also dont test those assemblies by hitting them with 125 ton aircraft moving 500 mph, so any test they did perform is dopesnt really apply to the situation
 
The Almond said:
Except that those people are lead investigators. They did not simply perform some experiments and report the results. The bulk of the NCSTAR is their writing, and their work. So yes, they all believe the findings of the report, and that's why they have affixed their names and credentials to it.
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It should also be pointed out that at least one of the contracts awarded was for the specific purpose of reviewing and critiquing the work of another contract.

The one I'm think of is SB1341-03-Q-0322, Area 1. "[F]our experts from Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP (SOM) Structural Engineering Office" were tasked with providing "an independent, in-depth, third-party review and critique of the work conducted under contract SB1341-03-W-0332".

Contract SB1341-03-W-0332 was awarded to "Leslie E. Robertson Associates (LERA), R.L.L.P.; the firm responsible for the structural engineering of the World Trade Center towers."

So, not only did NIST get 3 engineers, from the firm which engineered the towers, with "detailed knowledge of the design, construction, and intended behavior of the towers over their entire 38-years life span" "(1) to digitize structural data from original computer printouts; (2) to develop reference structural analysis models that capture the intended behavior of the structures including modifications as a result of major tenant alterations and the 1993 bombing event; and (3) to analyze the baseline structural response under design wind and gravity loads", but they also got an independent third-party to critique the "deliverables" that LERA handed over.

And they call the NIST report a "joke"?

These fools want a third-party investigation, but they don't even realize that third-parties were involved in the original investigation.
 
skepticalcriticalguy said:
I hope you are honest with this list of people who participated in the NIST report. Just because somebody performs a piece of research does not mean that that person necessarily believes in the "findings" of the whole project.

Example: just because a fingerprinting expert matches fingerprints at a crime scene does not mean that they have an opinion as to whodunnit. They do their job, and submit their findings. What's done with it after that is up to the controllers of the project.

(It's late, I hope that makes sense).
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They were the project leaders. I researched each name and added, where possible, a link to a site that gives more detail of their credentials. It is all done with no misleading intended. This is who they are, and what they have accomplished.

It is an impressive list of academics IMO.

TAM:)
 
slugmancs said:
I agree completely with that one, they have Jones and thats about it. Oh and Kevin Ryan, the great water tester.
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One bit that the deniers don't seem to get is that claiming Steven Jones is on your side is somewhat akin to bragging that Stephen Hawking is in your NBA team's starting lineup.
 
The Almond said:
Except that those people are lead investigators. They did not simply perform some experiments and report the results. The bulk of the NCSTAR is their writing, and their work. So yes, they all believe the findings of the report, and that's why they have affixed their names and credentials to it.
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Right. But it's these lead investigators, who put their names on it, many of whom have serious conflict of interest problems.
 
T.A.M. said:
They were the project leaders. I researched each name and added, where possible, a link to a site that gives more detail of their credentials. It is all done with no misleading intended. This is who they are, and what they have accomplished.

It is an impressive list of academics IMO.

TAM:)
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Did you include their work for the Bush administration, pre and post 9/11? And their work for Silverstein Properties?
 
skepticalcriticalguy said:
Right. But it's these lead investigators, who put their names on it, many of whom have serious conflict of interest problems.
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That's a rather fast retreat from your original proposition, which implied that they had no idea what went into the report and simply affixed their names to it without reading it or determining if the conclusions were valid.

You're now implying that they're willfully complicit in the largest government coverup. That is to say, you believe their interests cause them to lie or fabricate evidence to support them. Frankly, I think you're poisoning the well in an attempt to impugn the honor of scientists and researchers who have done absolutely nothing wrong.
 
The Almond said:
That's a rather fast retreat from your original proposition, which implied that they had no idea what went into the report and simply affixed their names to it without reading it or determining if the conclusions were valid.
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No, that's not my position. I was saying that on a project such as this, the people doing the actual work don't necessarily know what the others are doing. They come to conclusions regarding their small piece of the overall project, and submit them.

The controllers of the project are the ones I have a problem with.
 
skepticalcriticalguy said:
No, that's not my position. I was saying that on a project such as this, the people doing the actual work don't necessarily know what the others are doing. They come to conclusions regarding their small piece of the overall project, and submit them.

The controllers of the project are the ones I have a problem with.
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Wtf? This is the exact same argument the Apollo Moon Hoax believers trot out when someone points out how Impossibly Vast their conspiracy theory has to be...

SCG's ideas about 9/11 are just recycled trash from 30 years ago...
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Wtf? This is the exact same argument the Apollo Moon Hoax believers trot out when someone points out how Impossibly Vast their conspiracy theory has to be...

SCG's ideas about 9/11 are just recycled trash from 30 years ago...
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It's been around for 30 years because it's the way it is. Hello?
 
skepticalcriticalguy said:
It's been around for 30 years because it's the way it is. Hello?
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So you also believe that man didn't land on the moon... for the exact same reason that you believe the NIST report is a sham?

Christ, the HBs have only had a mere 40 years to expose that conspiracy. If that's any indication, the Truth movement better hunker down for a long winter. :rolleyes:
 
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