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Split Thread NIST did not utilize the scientific method?

beachnut: You say there (are) anomalies, but the truth is they are no anomalies, it is ignorance of science, physics, math and more. Your anomalies are due to your lack of knowledge.

You say: "it is ignorance of science, physics, math and more. Your anomalies are due to your lack of knowledge."

Want to include "no common sense?"

No wonder you fell for the "path of least resistance" ploy, "common sense".

What about the 16 witnesses to explosions, is that some evidence for your explosives? '

16 WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

Are these some of your evidence? Do you answer anything, or what?

Yes, you to it. 911 truth used common sense, and they needed physics, knowledge, research, math, science, and logic.

There are no anomalies on 911, only the ignorance in those who make the claim. When are you retracting your lies at Op Ed News? Or are you guys at OEN in the business of spreading the big lie, and make it the truth?

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html
Are standing by your anomalies?
 
You. Did you actually read it all, i.e., all of it?

If you did, either you were not paying attention, or you simply could not understand.

When you write an explanation that no one seems to understand the way you want, who do you think is at fault? And what could you do to remedy it?
 
I pointed out that your claim that Truthers have a grand unified explanation is not only wrong, but you presented it in a way intended to stop discussion, not start it.



You said it, not us.
"I pointed out that your claim that Truthers have a grand unified explanation is not only wrong, but you presented it in a way intended to stop discussion, not start it."

I have no desire to stop discussion. I merely changed the direction of the discussion. Perhaps I should start a new thread. What does anybody or everybody think? Would it be appropriate to start a new thread? I suppose I could just do it but will anyone follow me?

What I said was, did beachnut "want to include common sense?"
 
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No wonder you fell for the "path of least resistance" ploy, "common sense".

What about the 16 witnesses to explosions, is that some evidence for your explosives? '

16 WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises before the towers collapsed:

"Sounded like bombs" –Keith Murphy
"A huge explosion" –Gerard Gorman
"Sound of popping and exploding" –Alwish Monchery
"Explosions" –William Burns
"Kept hearing these large boom, boom" –Rosario Terranova
"Sounded like explosions." –Anthony Fitzgerald
"Like a shotgun going off" –Mark Meier
"Sounded like explosions" –Wilfred Barriere
"Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters" –John Murray
"You could hear explosions" –Richard Smiouskas
"Sounded like an M-80, that's how loud they were" –Tim Pearson
"Sounds like a shotgun" –Eric Ronningen
"Sounded like an explosion" –John Morabito
"There were lots of explosions" –Jeff Birnbaum
"Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs." –Andrew Rodriguez
"Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge." –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

Are these some of your evidence? Do you answer anything, or what?

Yes, you to it. 911 truth used common sense, and they needed physics, knowledge, research, math, science, and logic.

There are no anomalies on 911, only the ignorance in those who make the claim. When are you retracting your lies at Op Ed News? Or are you guys at OEN in the business of spreading the big lie, and make it the truth?

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html
Are standing by your anomalies?
Got it. beachnut is on record say saying/implying that Watts has no common sense.
 
When you write an explanation that no one seems to understand the way you want, who do you think is at fault? And what could you do to remedy it?

Fair enough.

I reduced the point to the following:

Here is where I have come to with all that I have encountered here at JREF. As we go issue by issue you always have an explanation. No problem there. But it is always that every explanation that you provide is in terms of its being "possible."

Your side has to come up with a way to explain away every single thing regarding 9/11. And the list of things for you to explain goes on and on.

Of course that applies to the truther side as well. But we can explain everything in one sentence. It was an inside job/false flag event.
 
Fair enough.

I reduced the point to the following:

Here is where I have come to with all that I have encountered here at JREF. As we go issue by issue you always have an explanation. No problem there. But it is always that every explanation that you provide is in terms of its being "possible."

Your side has to come up with a way to explain away every single thing regarding 9/11. And the list of things for you to explain goes on and on.

Of course that applies to the truther side as well. But we can explain everything in one sentence. It was an inside job/false flag event.

That's not an explanation, it's an assertion.


How did this inside job/false flag event take place? Were planes involved? If CD who placed the explosive? When? How? Where are all the conspirators?
 
Fair enough.

I reduced the point to the following:

Here is where I have come to with all that I have encountered here at JREF. As we go issue by issue you always have an explanation. No problem there. But it is always that every explanation that you provide is in terms of its being "possible."
You do realize you ask a question and someone provides an answer, that's how normal discussions work?

Your side has to come up with a way to explain away every single thing regarding 9/11. And the list of things for you to explain goes on and on.
So because every silly thing you claim gets debunked - with facts - that's suspicious to you?

Of course that applies to the truther side as well. But we can explain everything in one sentence. I am presenting my opinion as evidence.
Fixed that for you.
 
...
Your side has to come up with a way to explain away every single thing regarding 9/11. And the list of things for you to explain goes on and on.

Of course that applies to the truther side as well. But we can explain everything in one sentence. It was an inside job/false flag event.

Your side has no rational claims. Kinds of ends the debate. You came here to back in CD and failed. What is next?

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html

How is that CD lie going? Free-fall? Did you retract the free-fall claims for the towers yet? Need a stop-watch?
 
The fires in the rubble are of no consequence in determining anything concerning the cause of collapses. It has been explained over and over that thermite simply cannot sustain its combustion for more than a few minutes. This requires that other more mundane fuels are in play. Fuels found in abundance in the structures.

NIR is it even possible to connect anything occurring in the rubble of the destroyed buildings with what occurred hundreds of feet up the structures while they stood.

It has also been demonstrated in these forum threads many times that reports of molten metal, even molten steel, are quite common in many fire situations. Eithervthis is true and there is often molten steel in large fires, in which case there is nothing more to discuss wrt the WTC complex,
OR
The reports care in error which means these erroneous reports are quite common and the reports of molten steel in the rubble of WTC complex can be held to be no more reliable than those others.

In addition it is so very easy to find open air large fires that maintain temperatures as high as those measured at the hot spot 'chimneys' of the rubble fires. Open air fires by their very nature will be cooler than a covered fire. There are also amplke examples of long lasting covered/underground fires.

For some reason no one at AE911T, nor David watts seems to have any clue as to the import of these points. Indeed they are completely and utterly ignored in favour of the very storyline these facts show is wrong.
 
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Fair enough.

I reduced the point to the following:

Here is where I have come to with all that I have encountered here at JREF. As we go issue by issue you always have an explanation. No problem there. But it is always that every explanation that you provide is in terms of its being "possible."

Your side has to come up with a way to explain away every single thing regarding 9/11. And the list of things for you to explain goes on and on.

Of course that applies to the truther side as well. But we can explain everything in one sentence. It was an inside job/false flag event.

Actually it quite often does not apply to the truther side. For instance the thermite-caused-long-term-high-temps in the rubble. That is simply not even possible.

Then there are the blatant errors and omissions promoted by the truther side. These are such as the supposed only 16-20 foot hole in the Pentagon when in fact 100+ feet of the ground floor wall were taken out by the aircraft impact and that round hole is at the second floor level, all of which is entirely consistent with the Boeing having rammed the building.
 
You do realize you ask a question and someone provides an answer, that's how normal discussions work?


So because every silly thing you claim gets debunked - with facts - that's suspicious to you?


Fixed that for you.
You misquoted me.
 
"I pointed out that your claim that Truthers have a grand unified explanation is not only wrong, but you presented it in a way intended to stop discussion, not start it."

I have no desire to stop discussion. I merely changed the direction of the discussion.
You misunderstand. The way you've presented the claim makes it seem like it's supposed to be the final answer to everything Truthers have to "explain" to form a coherent theory. Not only do not all truthers believe in "MIHOP", but it's just occurred to me that it doesn't explain Truther claims that are physically impossible, such as the Threm-whatever fires for weeks.

Perhaps I should start a new thread. What does anybody or everybody think? Would it be appropriate to start a new thread? I suppose I could just do it but will anyone follow me?
Interesting how you ignore the "wrong" part. The "ignored a real terrorist attack" theory doesn't fall under "inside job/false flag".

What I said was, did beachnut "want to include common sense?"
In the list of things you were lacking, yes, I know. That was my point.

You misquoted me.

Dodge noted.
 
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tsig: Were planes involved? If CD who placed the explosive? When? How? Where are all the conspirators?

That is my point. I (we) do not have to explain any of that. No explanation is required from our side.

First, if we were able to prove -- a single one of the so many things that the official story absolutely requires for it to be true, e.g., prove any one of the collapses being a CD, to be false, the official story crumbles. But lets say we have proved not a single thing -- and we have not at least to JREF's satisfaction -- we can still explain, but maybe not absolutely prove 100%, that 9/11 was an inside job/false flag event. But I think we can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.999%. And if I am able to do that, you can still say that it is "possible" I/we are wrong. I give you that.

(note: I have not actually put everything together yet so I hope I don't have to eat my words, but I am very confident (99.99%) in what I am saying.)
 
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tsig: Were planes involved? If CD who placed the explosive? When? How? Where are all the conspirators?

That is my point. I (we) do not have to explain any of that. No explanation is required from our side.

First, if we were able to prove -- a single one of the so many things that the official story absolutely requires for it to be true, e.g., prove any one of the collapses being a CD, to be false, the official story crumbles. But lets say we have proved not a single thing -- and we have not at least to JREF's satisfaction -- we can still explain, but maybe not absolutely prove 100%, that 9/11 was an inside job/false flag event. But I think we can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.999%. And if I am able to do that, you can still say that it is "possible" I/we are wrong. I give you that.

(note: I have not actually put everything together yet so I hope I don't have to eat my words, but I am very confident (99.99%) in what I am saying.)

Your proof of an inside job only exists in your mind, Santa has more proof...

lol, your movement is mocking those killed on 911 by 19. Your fantasy is silly, your proofs failed.

It is a fact you are wrong, and proof is the nonsense 911 truth has.
http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html

Free-fall to no planes - no physics needed to make up the dumbest 911 truth claims, and proof is your work. The path of least resistance is funny, can't believe you posted it. Wow
 
beachnut: "...can't believe you posted it. Wow"

beachnut, I understand. I must change what I posted.

I said: "... I think I/we can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.999%" I take that back. It was careless of me. I should have said "I think I/we/You can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.9999999%."

Sorry.

And honestly, I have no idea how many 9's to add after the decimal point.
 
beachnut: "...can't believe you posted it. Wow"

beachnut, I understand. I must change what I posted.

I said: "... I think I/we can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.999%" I take that back. It was careless of me. I should have said "I think I/we/You can prove it to a level above, and I think well above, 99.9999999%."

Sorry.

And honestly, I have no idea how many 9's to add after the decimal point.

If you fly like you spread lies, you are the greatest pilot in the universe. (oops, but I am the greatest, darn)

With a legacy of http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html
Keep up the good work, spreading lies about those murdered on 911, is super.

lol, what a bunch of BS. sad it is about the murder of my fellow citizens, and you make fun of them with every post. Thanks a lot for being so ... patriotic, spreading lies, not retracting lies you posted years ago.

28 years of service so you can spread lies, good job - merry Christmas, keep spreading lies of 911
 
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beach nut: "If you fly like you spread lies, you are the greatest pilot in the universe."

Putting it like that makes me think you think there are a lot of pilots in the universe. I cannot prove otherwise. But the probability of me being the "greatest pilot" on earth, much less "the universe," is astronomically not unlikely. Sorry, I should have said not "likely." Whatever, I would never, if I knew they were lies, spread lies. If from my end I did not think they were lies, I am not spreading my lies but would be unknowingly spreading someone else's lies. But even so, I would in deed be "spreading lies."
 
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beach nut: "If you fly like you spread lies, you are the greatest pilot in the universe."

Putting it like that makes me think you think there are a lot of pilots in the universe. I cannot prove otherwise. But the probability of me being the "greatest pilot" on earth, much less "the universe," is astronomically not unlikely. Sorry, I should have said "not likely." Whatever, I would never, if I knew they were lies, spread lies. If from my end I did not think they were lies, I am not spreading my lies but would be unknowingly spreading someone else's lies. But even so, I would in deed be spreading "lies."


http://www.opednews.com/Diary/9-11-How-many-virtual-pro-by-David-Watts-080324-705.html

This says it all, merry Christmas, as you make fun, spread BS at the expense of those murdered on 911 by 19 terrorists, yet you make up fantasy of CD, and other failed ideas out of ignorance and, maybe hate?

No big deal, maybe you guys at OEN make money selling woo, and selling out your country, after all it is capitalism, and $$$ is the bottom line.

Free-fall, is not an indication of CD, you need evidence.

merry Christmas

From the greatest pilot in the world, me, you can't be, you are fooled by illusions
 
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Beachnut, "... as you make fun, spread BS at the expense of those murdered on 911..."

Sorry you feel I am doing that. You really feel that way?? How, by what I have said, am I doing that??

I guess you think 911truth is purposely spreading BS "at the expense of those murdered on 911." All we are trying to do is to show who it was that murdered those on 9/11.
 
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David Watts' reasoning looks very similar to that of the creationists.

This is how Richard Dawkins puts it:

Let's use the analogy of a detective coming to the scene of a crime where there were no eyewitnesses. The baronet has been shot. Fingerprints, footprints, DNA from a sweat stain on the pistol, and a strong motive, all point toward the butler. It's pretty much an open-and-shut case, and the jury and everybody in the court is convinced that the butler did it. But a last-minute piece of evidence is discovered, in the nick of time before the jury retires to consider what had seemed to be their inevitable verdict of guilty: somebody remembers that the baronet had installed spy cameras against burglars. With bated breath, the court watches the films. One of them shows the butler in the act of opening the drawer in his pantry, taking out a pistol, loading it, and creeping stealthily out of the room with a malevolent gleam in his eye. You might think that this solidifies the case against the butler even further. Mark the sequel, however. The butler's defense lawyer astutely points out that there was no spy camera in the library where the murder took place, and no spy camera in the corridor leading from the butler's pantry. "There's a gap in the video record! We don't know what happened after the butler left the pantry. There is clearly insufficient evidence to convict my client."

In vain, the prosecution lawyer points out that there was a second camera in the billiard room, and this shows, through the open door, the butler, gun at the ready, creeping on tiptoe along the passage toward the library. Surely this plugs the gap in the video record? But no. Triumphantly the defense lawyer plays his ace. "We don't know what happened before or after the butler passed the open door of the billiard room. There are now two gaps in the video record. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my case rests. There is now even less evidence against my client than there was before."​

http://www.newsweek.com/excerpt-richard-dawkinss-new-book-evolution-79345

That is my point. I (we) do not have to explain any of that. No explanation is required from our side.
The overwhelming evidence favors the presence of 19 terrorists crashing 4 planes against WTC1, WTC2, the Pentagon, and a field, respectively. On the other side there is zero evidence of detonators, explosive cuts, missiles, etc.

Demanding an explanation for every little anomaly is utterly unreasonable. Even more so when the burden of proof is so heavily tilted towards those who claim inside job, despite your "point" which I could only explain as wishful thinking at its finest.

And about the topic, I've already made the point that the faster-than-free-fall collapse of WTC7 makes the case for simultaneous removal of supporting columns invalid, further shifting the burden of proof to the truther side (as if it wasn't tilted enough that way already).
 

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