Nigeria

[Mycroft]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/20/nigeria-election-violence-deaths-arrests

Police in Nigeria have arrested hundreds of people after protests in opposition strongholds in the mostly Muslim north following President Goodluck Jonathan's election victory.

At least 80 people have been killed in cities, hundreds injured and thousands displaced by the violence after Jonathan won Saturday's vote. His rival, northerner and ex-military ruler Muhammadu Buhari, says the result was rigged.

Supporters of the ruling party have been stabbed, hacked and shot to death by youths since Jonathan, a Christian southerner, defeated Buhari. Churches, mosques, homes and shops have been set ablaze.

Some months ago I was speaking to a native Nigerian who was in the US on a student visa, who tole me President Goodluck Jonathan hadn't ever been elected to office, having inherited his office by the previous holder dying or retiring (I forget which) but that once in office he'd worked hard at reforming Nigerian politics by removing the graft and corruption in place. He said he was very popular and had inspired him (the person I was speaking with) to go into politics himself.

But apparently he's not so popular with the population in the north? Is it ethnic or religious strife? Or is it some other factor?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Parliamentary system ftw!

 

[A'isha]

But apparently he's not so popular with the population in the north? Is it ethnic or religious strife? Or is it some other factor?

I think a combination of ethnic and religious strife is at the heart of it, exacerbated by anger at Jonathan's attempts to dismantle the tribal nepotism in government that has resulted in regional resentments in the localized power bases of those tribes.

Nigeria has always had trouble between the almost-entirely-Muslim north and the almost-entirely-Christian south (the split is almost exactly 50/50, population-wise). Northern Muslim tribes are not happy about a Southern Christian President who has been trying to reduce the individual power and influence of those tribes in government, while Southern Christians are not happy about the northern Muslim tribes trying to undo all of the changes that their co-religionist President has made.

I'm no expert on Nigeria, though.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Put another way, what you or I might call corruption is, in a number of Muslim nations, simply how one does business.

 

[A'isha]

Put another way, what you or I might call corruption is, in a number of Muslim nations, simply how one does business.

Well, it's corruption, but it's generally not the same kind of corruption, nor does it have the same motivation. It's basically an application of tribal and interpersonal politics writ large. When you get the ability to give out government appointments, you give them out to members of your tribe and family rather than an outsider, regardless of how poorly-qualified your family member is and how well-qualified the outsider is, because loyalty to and the advancement of the family/tribe of course takes priority. An Arab proverb sums up this mentality rather well: "Me against my brother, my brother and I against our uncle, me, my brother, and my uncle against the world."

This is contrasted to the usual Western pattern of political corruption, where appointments and things are generally given out to those who can provide you with monetary compensation or more political power, regardless of family or tribal connections.

 

[geni]

Well, it's corruption, but it's generally not the same kind of corruption, nor does it have the same motivation. It's basically an application of tribal and interpersonal politics writ large. When you get the ability to give out government appointments, you give them out to members of your tribe and family rather than an outsider, regardless of how poorly-qualified your family member is and how well-qualified the outsider is, because loyalty to and the advancement of the family/tribe of course takes priority. An Arab proverb sums up this mentality rather well: "Me against my brother, my brother and I against our uncle, me, my brother, and my uncle against the world."

Nigeria doesn't have much in the way of an arab population though.

 

[A'isha]

Nigeria doesn't have much in the way of an arab population though.

Yes, but it still has a very similar form of tribal and intertribal traditional interactions.

My use of an Arab proverb was just because it's a well-known illustration of how that tends to work, and not meant to imply that Nigeria was in any way Arabian.

 

[geni]

But apparently he's not so popular with the population in the north? Is it ethnic or religious strife? Or is it some other factor?

Broadly speaking ethnic with a wounderful mix of religious post colonial factors.

The north and south are different tribal groupings and the north is muslim while the south is christian.

They also have different colonial histories. The south is costal which means that it was more extensively colonised (by britian) which means more european influenced and more education. The north was aquired latter and british control over the area was more nominal so less education and a lot less european influence. Simular faultline compared to ivory coast.

 

[Mycroft]

Broadly speaking ethnic with a wounderful mix of religious post colonial factors.

The north and south are different tribal groupings and the north is muslim while the south is christian.

They also have different colonial histories. The south is costal which means that it was more extensively colonised (by britian) which means more european influenced and more education. The north was aquired latter and british control over the area was more nominal so less education and a lot less european influence. Simular faultline compared to ivory coast.

So...the North didn't benefit as much from colonialism as the South did.

 

[geni]

So...the North didn't benefit as much from colonialism as the South did.

They were killed in smaller numbers but on the other hand got less infrastructure and education.

However the north was merged with the south so the that money made from running the south could cover the cost of running the north.

 

[A'isha]

There's also the issue that the big oil-producing region of the Niger Delta is in the South, which is another reason the North resents that half of the country.

 

[Darat]

Put another way, what you or I might call corruption is, in a number of Muslim nations, simply how one does business.

No because the corruption in Nigeria is country wide not region specific as it would have to be if it was a "Muslim" thing.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

I'm no expert on Nigeria, though.

I'm not an expert but have lived there and the corruption* is endemic no matter where you are in the country, it is simply part of life, and is not considered wrong.





*I've used the word corruption as we use it in countries like the USA and UK and that of course carries a negative association which is not really present in Nigerian corruption.

 

[Darat]

So...the North didn't benefit as much from colonialism as the South did.

I think a good argument could be made that colonisation was the primary cause for corruption becoming part of Nigerian culture, since corruption was rife within the administration at that time.

 

[A'isha]

No because the corruption in Nigeria is country wide not region specific as it would have to be if it was a "Muslim" thing.

Indeed. It has nothing to do with Islam.

It's basically a consequence of countries that have been (usually) artificially (and often arbitrarily) imposed on groupings of tribes in geographic proximity. Instead of creating a nation-state with a unified identity, throwing together individual tribal groups that have no ethnological or political identity in common (and in many cases, are actually generations-old enemies) results in a nation where members of tribal groupings self-identify (and work towards the advancement of) as members of those tribes, because to them the tribe is their nation, not the larger state. There's no incentive to work towards the advancement of the country qua country, because the country is an irrelevant entity to them.

 

[A'isha]

I'm not an expert but have lived there and the corruption* is endemic no matter where you are in the country, it is simply part of life, and is not considered wrong.

*I've used the word corruption as we use it in countries like the USA and UK and that of course carries a negative association which is not really present in Nigerian corruption.

I think a good argument could be made that colonisation was the primary cause for corruption becoming part of Nigerian culture, since corruption was rife within the administration at that time.

Well, there's two different types of corruption (mainly distinguished by the levels at which they operate).

There's the tribal nepotism that Johnson has worked to eliminate (and that has gotten a lot of people angry at him). And then there's the constant, almost endemic lower-level bureaucratic corruption where paying an extra twenty bucks (or whatever) to the local customs official in order to pass your perfectly-innocent goods over the border is not so much a bribe to a greedy official as it is just another cost of doing business that everyone has to pay.

That sort of corruption is worldwide. Just try to do anything in China, for instance, without paying off some party official or another.

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Hmm, I can chime on this. I recently talked to a Nigerian and was told that indeed Nigeria is under the rule of law and is not that bad of a place to live. She was studying to be a fuel scientist and as an incentive to move back, Nigeria was going to offer her 30% more than what we were going to pay tax free plus other perks. She said that there were quite a few nice surburban homes in Nigeria. I don't know where you are finding these africans from to talk to. The only ones I am finding in America are economic immigrants from the ruling classes who are getting money from their african tribe to supplement their meager US income and/or are getting a first class education in order to move back to their country to live a nice surburban life there.

 

[A'isha]

I don't know where you are finding these africans from to talk to.

Well, I got an email from the widow of a former prince who needed help getting her dead husbands money out of the country...

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Well, I got an email from the widow of a former prince who needed help getting her dead husbands money out of the country...

I was told specifically that these emails do not actually come from the government of Nigeria and are in fact illegal. If these people are caught you can sure they will be prosecuted by the Nigerian government.

 

[DC]

Well, I got an email from the widow of a former prince who needed help getting her dead husbands money out of the country...

hahahaha