Nick Griffin, BNP leader on BBC's Question Time

[Darat]

And this matters why? Britian has some kind of obligation to take them in?

...snip...

Yes.

 

[Darat]

When Geert Wilders came to Britain he was threated, by muslims, in broad daylight, WITH DEATH!


...snip...

Evidence?

 

[Arcade22]

I was unaware that Oslo was in Sweden. This is not evidence that rape is a widely accepted part of the culture.

It's not? Then what is it? Hell, immigrants, especially from MENA countries, are overrepresented in all kinds of crimes, rape included.

Perhaps it's genetic?

You criticised multiculturalism (but only when it comes from Africa or the middle east) as to show why it was bad you picked out isolated incidents and held them up as the typical culture of people from those countries with the implied anti-multiculturalism suggestion that anyone from those countries would want to bring and impose those crime ridden cultures on Sweden (or Norway depending on where Oslo is these days).

Statistics from the Swedish government.

Isolated incidents my ass.

If you were not suggesting that. What was the point of picking out the incidents you did. What point were you trying to make with regards multiculturalism in Sweden, when you admit that crime is an inescapable part of every human society.

Some society's are, as the evidence proves, much more inclined to commit crime. Arabs and Africans are in the top and I'm not willing to take the risk of them committing crime here. Perhaps you are?

I also see no economic reason for allowing immigration from third-world countries stricken with illiteracy and AIDS. Hell, Somalians had their first written language in the 1970's!

 

[Arcade22]

Evidence?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=377_1255726583

 

[Arcade22]

Why draw the line at that and not one that is racist, homophobic and steeped in Holocaust denial?

The risk that a party like the BNP could implement some kind of homophobic social policy is minuscule, they are like any party trying to bring a wide audience to vote for them, homophobes and extremist nationalist included.

 

[Arcade22]

and you van show these Muslims were immigrants can you?

Here's the video, they look like immigrants or at least second generation immigrants.

 

[brodski]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=377_1255726583

You post footage of very obviously British Muslims (they have regional British accents) to prove that immigration policy is not working. How do you classify an immigrant?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

The risk that a party like the BNP could implement some kind of homophobic social policy is minuscule, they are like any party trying to bring a wide audience to vote for them, homophobes and extremist nationalist included.

Umm, no.

They pretend to be MODERATE to bring in the votes.

They are the extremists.

 

[Lothian]

It's not? Then what is it? Hell, immigrants, especially from MENA countries, are overrepresented in all kinds of crimes, rape included.

Perhaps it's genetic?

You are claiming that crime is cultural That is, it is an accepted part of the culture. You have not proved this, any more than suicide is an accepted part of the Scandinavian culture.

Statistics from the Swedish government.

Isolated incidents my ass.

The stats you publish from that anti imigration site state those committing crime are less than 1% of the population. Hardly a cultural issue then.

Some society's are, as the evidence proves, much more inclined to commit crime. Arabs and Africans are in the top and I'm not willing to take the risk of them committing crime here. Perhaps you are?

Prove that it is causation and not correlation. Are you arguing it is genetic?

 

[Arcade22]

You are claiming that crime is cultural That is, it is an accepted part of the culture. You have not proved this, any more than suicide is an accepted part of the Scandinavian culture.

Then why are some immigrant groups more inclined to commit crimes such as rape, robbery and assault compared to others? You can strike "social-economic factors" out because BRÅ ruled that out.

The stats you publish from that anti imigration site state those committing crime are less than 1% of the population. Hardly a cultural issue then.

The stats are from the Swedish crime prevention council, a government agency.

Around 25% of the African and Arab population in Sweden has been registered for a crime, compare that to 5% for people that have parents born in Sweden.
Why is that? The only logical thing i can think of is cultural differences.

Here's another example from Norway:

Rape Committee recommends that the Government is working out "a training program on attitudes, boundaries and Norwegian culture under the theme of rape and gender equality."
The committee believes this should be part of the introductory program that has already given to newly arrived non-western immigrants.

- It is also important that immigrant women are familiar with the Norwegian rights if they are exposed to rape, says Sletner to Aftenposten.no.

Apparently the need to be taught that you shouldn't rape women...

Prove that it is causation and not correlation.

I have already explained why i think is cultural, there are hardly any women's rights and men are their superiors who they have to obey at all times.
Forced marrige of children as young as 12 are common as is forced cousin marriage and anyone who says no could quite possibly face death by their family.
The killing of rape victims aren't unheard of also.

Are you arguing it is genetic?

No, i have not seen any evidence that Middle easterners and Africans are genetically inclined to commit more crime than "westerners".

 

[Arcade22]

You post footage of very obviously British Muslims (they have regional British accents) to prove that immigration policy is not working.

The Muslims obviously got in somehow, didn't they? They seem to have spread like a plague trough Britain.

How do you classify an immigrant?

Someone who emigrates from a country to another.

 

[Arcade22]

Umm, no.

They pretend to be MODERATE to bring in the votes.

They are the extremists.

Of course they are extremist compared to the politics that Britain have now, and they have obviously views on issues where they couldn't possibly change anything.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Someone who emigrates from a country to another.

That seems odd, given that earlier in this thread you used the phrase "second generation immigrants".

Either they emigrated from one country to another (in which case they are immigrants on your definition) or they didn't (in which case they are not under your definition).

No such thing as "second generation immigrants" under your definition. If you mean "non-white" feel free to say it rather than hide behind codewords.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Of course they are extremist compared to the politics that Britain have now, and they have obviously views on issues where they couldn't possibly change anything.

Unless people vote for them. Which you have said you would.

If they get the power you want them to have to change immigration policy, they have the power to do all the other things they want to do as well.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Crime and immigration:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/apr/16/immigrationpolicy.immigration

http://park.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/yastodo/immigrants.pdf

http://immigration.lohudblogs.com/2009/06/24/fact-check-illegal-immigrants-and-crime/

 

[Undesired Walrus]

The risk that a party like the BNP could implement some kind of homophobic social policy is minuscule, they are like any party trying to bring a wide audience to vote for them, homophobes and extremist nationalist included.

So if there was a anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism party that was run by a bunch of peadophiles who didn't wish to implement a pro-peadophile social policy, you'd vote for them?

 

[Dr Adequate]

The risk that a party like the BNP could implement some kind of homophobic social policy is minuscule, they are like any party trying to bring a wide audience to vote for them, homophobes and extremist nationalist included.

Oh well, that's OK then. An alliance of extremist nationalists, homophobes, racists, and people who want to establish a homogeneous national culture ... what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Then why are some immigrant groups more inclined to commit crimes such as rape, robbery and assault compared to others? You can strike "social-economic factors" out because BRÅ ruled that out.

Sorry mate, Glasgow is the most violent place in Western Europe, let alone the UK, and is 94% white. Perhaps it's genetic? Or perhaps it is more likely to be the desperate poverty in that city.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

The Muslims obviously got in somehow, didn't they?

So did my Irish and Canadian parents. I'm not an immigrant (WTF is a 'second generation' immigrant?). I'm British. Aside from the Hizb Ut-Tahrir nutters, so are the Muslims. How have they been more dangerous than say, the Irish?

Tell me, seeing how most British Blacks have ancestors from the Caribbean, tell us what is in this cruel 'Caribbean culture' that predisposes people to rape, murder etc. The onus is on you to prove that British Blacks retain this culture, which leads them towards violence and disorder.

 

[dudalb]

The Muslims obviously got in somehow, didn't they? They seem to have spread like a plague trough Britain.



Someone who emigrates from a country to another.

Change "Muslims" to "Jews" and it sounds stragely familiar, does'nt it?


You have two foolish viewpoints on this. One is that all..or nearly all...Muslims are crazy ,evil fanatics. The other extreme..and it's caused by the first...is to try to minimize and/or ignore REAL Muslim extremism to the point of de facto denying it's a real problem,and at times go so far as to become a defacto apologists for it.
I think the poster I am quoting is of the first variety.

ANd another poster was right. Posting Bobby Fischer as an avatar should have given me a clue. I doubt it was in admiration of his chess genius.