newsflash from Finland: Top politician came out of the closet as an atheist

[chatiez]

- I'm an atheist, said Erkki Tuomioja, 2 time ex-minister and top names of largest leftist party, during hes speak in 20th annual celebration of Finlands skeptical organization Skepsis. The celebration was held in late 2007 but story broke out couple days ago nationwide.

In hes speak he gave strong support for skeptical inquiry but also addressed issues like theology being supported by state in universities.

Tuomioja gave a nod for Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens for their work on literature. For a politician, he used a bit controversial language like "religion poisons childrens mind" etc. He said islam to be The challenge for world today (guys a long-term socialist and earlier critizised as apologist for islam), but didn't spare christianity either.

 

[DanishDynamite]

"hes" = "his".

Is religious affiliation a big topic in Finland? In Denmark it is of no significance whatsoever. Still, I don't recall any Danish ministers expressing his/her lack of affiliation quite so bombasticly recently.

 

[Damien Evans]

I thought most people were atheists in Finland?

If that is indeed the case, why is this news?

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

I thought most people were atheists in Finland?

If that is indeed the case, why is this news?

Me sentiments exactly. I always thought that Finlandians (is that a noun?) were much more enlightened but otherwise more morose than their American counterparts ....

Charlie (stop the presses, bear craps in woods) Monoxide

 

[chatiez]

I thought most people were atheists in Finland?

If that is indeed the case, why is this news?

85% of finnish are members of pretty moderate evangelic-lutherist church, around 10% are outside of religious communities. The most common stance among public is a some level of apathy towards religion rather than atheistic.
It's not like Finland is an absolute utopia of rationality and enlightement (thats Sweden!). While religion is seen mostly as passive cultural phenomenon and fundamentalist groups haven't got too much space in major church, the religion is still a kind of a tabu.
Politicians are pretty much dont ask dont tell. While this isn't actually something like Sam Harris elected to senator, its still a leap. The word atheist means something negative to a large part of public: seen as either marxist or nihilistic worldview.

It was also telling that large yellow paper breaking story took this also as a change to smear our local skeptical organization as taking stance against "so called 'pseudo-science'".

 

[Merko]

It's not like Finland is an absolute utopia of rationality and enlightement (thats Sweden!).

Actually, I think Finland and Sweden are pretty similar. Everything you wrote about Finland could probably be said about Sweden as well, except it is ten years since the until-recently-state church had a membership of 85%.

Our current prime minister is deeply Christian, although he's never tried to use that politically. The previous PM claimed to be a personally convinced Christian as well (and in Sweden, one would not expect such claims to be politically motivated).

One party in the current government is the Christian Democrats, who are always trying to drag religion into every debate. They are a small minority party, but important for the right-wing bloc.

I would say the reason why atheism is so common in Sweden, is that there have been a number of very vocal critics of religion during the last century or so. At the beginning of the 20th century we had the socialist (and nihilist) philosopher Hägerström, who became very influential and inspired many followers. In the mid-1900s this task was continued by another philosopher, Hedenius, who had no ties to socialist ideas, which probably helped making atheism a respected position in every part of the Swedish society.

Unfortunately, I believe Swedish atheists have not properly remembered the importance of Hägerström and Hedenius. Today, these people are widely regarded as 'angry' and 'intolerant' men, who engaged in hysteric squabbles for no good reason. We have forgotten that they actually had to fight for the religious freedom and general acceptance of rational values, that we now take for granted.

And of course, we can already see how this backfires. We too have our woo-woo TV shows, mediums talking to the dead, magical thinking presented uncritically, and an unwholesome reverence for the 'importance of faith' being spread and accepted also in educated circles. Most of the superstition is probably directed towards the less educated groups in society, and mainly towards women. It would perhaps be unrealistic to expect this to go away - there is always fame and money to be made in this way. What is more worrying then, is that the prevailing attitude from non-believers does not seem to be that this is dangerous nonsense, but that it somehow fills a 'profound' and 'necessary' function in people's lives.

 

[steverino]

Then the question is: If and when militant Muslims attempt to impose sharia law on Fins, Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes, will you deem us "overly Christian" Americans as equally irrational as "overly Muslim" citizens and governments in the predominantly Islamic countries?

Assuming both religions are equally woo, which I do, are they both an equal threat to secular Scandinavia?

Not to mix a metaphor, but:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1462108.ece

 

[chatiez]

Merko, you're trying to tackle our national envy towards Sweden with facts

 

[timhau]

Does anybody in this country (apart from committed Jesus freaks) think that Tuomioja's atheism is a) a big deal or b) surprising?

 

[chatiez]

a) not from the surface but I see some dees in details: non-ideological "new atheist". The christian commentators have labeled Tuomioja to be yearning back to big red. If anything, I think Tuomioja is moving away from left-wing.

b) its surprising that hes critisizing islam. Guys not retiring from the politics tommorrow so timing is a bit surprising.

 

[SomeGuy]

Then the question is: If and when militant Muslims attempt to impose sharia law on Fins, Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes, will you deem us "overly Christian" Americans as equally irrational as "overly Muslim" citizens and governments in the predominantly Islamic countries?

Assuming both religions are equally woo, which I do, are they both an equal threat to secular Scandinavia?

Not to mix a metaphor, but:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1462108.ece

I can't answer for scandinavia, but in my country I find the fundamentalist christrian "state reformed party" as big a threat to secular Netherlands as Islamist wanting to impose Sharia.

One of their topics is that passive voting for women should be cancelled.