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New Zealand bans kosher slaughter

We are not silly enough to stop killing meat animals in the manner required by our customer nations.
They want a particular method we deliver.
Remember... the customer is always right
Who dreams up this rubbish ?
 
If authorities find that Kosher killing methods are inhumane and must be improved, than Jews can either comply or import meat from another country.
 
I think the question was reasonable. How do you plan to humanely "stun" a cow?


Captive bolt.

Instant unconsciousness. You can be as squeamish as you like, but it works. The animals know nothing at all about it.

And if you believe that wound is a "blemish" within the meaning of the text, so that you are forbidden from eating the meat of the animal, may I point out that by law all cattle must be identified with an ear tag in each ear, and most sheep are also so identified. Why are you content to eat meat from animals that have been carrying around blemishes in their ears for almost all their lives?

Not to mention all the other operations commonly performed on livestock. Most male cattle and sheep are castrated, for example.

Not baulking at that, but baulking at a small head wound inflicted seconds before the shochet stroke, seems a little perverse.

Rolfe.

ETA: "You" in this context is rhetorical and not aimed at King Merv, obviously.
 
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It's barbaric. The animal's throat is cut, and the brain still receives enough blood through the vertebral arteries to stay conscious while it bleeds to death through a huge wound in its neck. It may be hung up by a hind leg while this happens.

This has always been my understanding too - I'm amazed that anyone can argue that this is in any way humane.

I'm surprised that it's taken them this long to outlaw this sort of thing.
 
Huh, I thought those things killed the cattle rather than just stunning it. Like in No Country for Old Men.


I seriously doubt that an animal would come round from a captive bolt wound, because (with a penetrating bolt anyway) the brain is injured. However, the heart keeps beating and the brain stem goes on working so that the blood is pumped out of the carcass. The animal is also "pithed", that is a flexible rod inserted into the skull defect, right back to the brain stem. That kind of does the trick. (It's quite weird when animals killed that way come in for post mortem. The plastic rod is sticking out of the forehead, and when you cut the head off, it's there in the spinal cord.)

You can find this as nauseating as you like, that is not the point. The point is that the animal loses consciousness instantly, with no idea what hit it.

Ironically, kosher slaughter was originally designed to achieve the same aims. Down the animal quickly and allow it to bleed out by having the heart go on beating. It was intended to be humane, and for that time, it was humane. Compared to a lot of other stuff. The trouble is, you don't immediately black out when your throat is cut, because there is other circulation to the brain.

Actually, halal slaughter isn't so bad as shechita, because the animal is supposed to be immediately decapitated, like a guillotine, but using a sword. This gets all the cerebral circulation and unconsciousness is a lot quicker. When it goes right. I don't know the percentage, but it's a very difficult thing to get right, and keep getting right time after time as your sword begins to get blunt and your arm starts to get tired. I don't think it was ever originally designed to be used in slaughterhouse conditions where many animals have to be killed one after the other.

There's no problem about doing these ritual slaughtering methods after the captive bolt is used. Except people who don't understand that their religious texts are just best practice from many hundreds or thousands of years ago, enshrined in religious writings as a good way to keep people doing what they were instructed to do.

"It is not possible to improve on the wisdom of Abraham," was the reply my meat inspection lecturer got when he raised the matter with the chief rabbi. Meanwhile, generations of Jewish vet students do their meat inspection practicals, and go home and have blazing rows with their parents. Apart from the few who are really fundamentalist about it, who set about writing apologetics that look scientific, to try to fend off criticism.

It's my belief that in countries where slaughter without pre-stunning is illegal, the Jewish communities somehow find they can live with this. If that's the case, it's time a few more communities wised up.

Rolfe.
 
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This has always been my understanding too - I'm amazed that anyone can argue that this is in any way humane.

I'm surprised that it's taken them this long to outlaw this sort of thing.


They won't even talk about it here. I hope NZ's good example starts the debate.

Actually, if we even had labelling of ritually-slaughtered meat as "killed without pre-stunning", and the population as a whole knew what that meant, then it could become uneconomic. As it is, all the animals that don't pass the rabbi's verdict as properly killed, and the bits of the animal that aren't kosher, go into the normal food chain. I for one would dearly like to boycott that. If that was widespread, some people could have an awful lot of unsold meat on their hands.

Rolfe.
 
Captive bolt.

Instant unconsciousness. You can be as squeamish as you like, but it works. The animals know nothing at all about it.
And we've had threads here showing that that method doesn't always work so flawlessly either, and there's videos to prove it.
 
And we've had threads here showing that that method doesn't always work so flawlessly either, and there's videos to prove it.

What difference does such occasional failure make to either side in this debate? :confused:
 
The PM of New Zealand is a Jew. Guess they can't blaim this one on anti-Semitism.
 
they put a Schtreimel over its face and beat it over the head with a lulav...until she goes limp.
*Freudian slip surmise*

Sounds like an interesting date, but maybe that ought to have been saved for Community Forum. :cool:
 
"It is not possible to improve on the wisdom of Abraham," was the reply my meat inspection lecturer got when he raised the matter with the chief rabbi.

Now that I'd find ridiculous even back when I was a Fundie and believed all kinds of crap absolutely. But I must never have been fully committed (pun soooo very intended), because comments of that nature always made pause for a long time with "Whaaa....?" I remember in childhood puzzling about God's lack of hipness and reluctance to change with the times.
 
I don't believe in catering to superstitious nonsense regardless of how long it has been going on.

I especially would far prefer that people go hungry than animals be made to suffer as they die solely for superstitious reasons.
 
I didn't know anything about this before reading the thread, but Rolfe has convinced me.

The slaughter method should be the most humane one (or one of the most humane ones if there are several equally humane ones), and if religious methods are not as humane, they should be stopped.
 

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