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New Tobacco Bill Bans Flavored Cigarettes

Axiom_Blade said:
This is all moot, anyway. There are already laws against selling tobacco or alcohol to minors. There's also laws preventing adults from buying those products for them. The sensible thing is to enforce the already-existing laws, instead of using prohibition.
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No one's arguing for banning cigarettes outright. I'm not. But I do think it's morally reprehensible that giant tobacco companies are cynically marketing these products towards youth and then lying about it. And let's be honest, there is a racial and class component to all of this. What function do these flavored cigarettes serve? How does society benefit? How come tobacco products, which kill hundreds of thousands of people, are less regulated than dog food and makeup? We're all paying hidden costs in the long term for the emphysema, lung cancer and heart disease these products cause through higher insurance premiums and needlessly lost work productivity. Anything to cut down on the number of future smokers, and banning the manufacture and sale of flavored cigarettes will do that, is a good thing. Pretty much any social engineering within a democratic framework which reduces the number of smokers, I'm in favor of.

Axiom_Blade said:
Cannabis is illegal for anyone to purchase. It doesn't have any fruit flavoring. There isn't any advertising, "targeted at youth" or otherwise. Yet, plenty of minors still smoke it. How do you explain this?
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That's the power of pop music and MTV.

The funny thing is I'm a smoker. I see those displays when I buy cigarettes from the corner store and I wince for buying into Big Tobacco's marketing juggernaut in my own small way.

I'm trying to quit. It's a horrible habit that I wish I never started.
 
oldhat said:
That's the power of pop music and MTV.
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I don't mean to badger this to death, but would you favor a bill that restricted what rappers could rap about? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line in actually banning something simply due to how children might (and indeed do) use it.


The funny thing is I'm a smoker. I see those displays when I buy cigarettes from the corner store and I wince for buying into Big Tobacco's marketing juggernaut in my own small way.

I'm trying to quit. It's a horrible habit that I wish I never started.
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Best of luck to you friend. Odd thing is, I'm a non-smoker. Never even tried the stuff. Nonetheless, I don't want the government telling me I, a 23 year old, may not have a clove or a watermelon flavored Swisher simply because those things attract children.
 
oldhat said:
No one's arguing for banning cigarettes outright. I'm not.
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Yes, but they are banning certain types of cigarettes outright.

But I do think it's morally reprehensible that giant tobacco companies are cynically marketing these products towards youth and then lying about it. And let's be honest, there is a racial and class component to all of this. What function do these flavored cigarettes serve? How does society benefit?
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I don't know. How does society benefit from music? Movies? Video games? Wine? Spicy foods? Dirty dancing? Hula hoops?

How come tobacco products, which kill hundreds of thousands of people, are less regulated than dog food and makeup?
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Well, you got me there. I'm in favor of FDA oversight, just not the prohibition on flavored tobacco.

That's the power of pop music and MTV.
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For serious?
MTV allows ZERO drug references. I remember when they bleeped the word "chronic" out of a Snoop Dogg song.
I can't remember the last time I heard a drug mentioned in a pop song.

The reason kids smoke cannabis and tobacco is because A) they see their peers do it, B) they see adults do it, and C) they want to know what it's like. Plain ol' curiosity and wanting to fit in. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're smart about it.

The funny thing is I'm a smoker. I see those displays when I buy cigarettes from the corner store and I wince for buying into Big Tobacco's marketing juggernaut in my own small way.

I'm trying to quit. It's a horrible habit that I wish I never started.
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I wish you well in your attempts to quit.
This reminds me of those ex-alcoholics I've met, who tried to convince me to stop drinking. They saw one beer as the gateway to a lifetime of liver damage and waking up in gutters. They had bad experiences with alcohol, and wanted to save me from them. However, their experiences weren't mine.

I've been a casual smoker for the past 15 years. I had my first cigarette when I was 17. I've never been addicted. I know nicotine is very addictive for most people, though. There should be programs available for those who've decided to quit, just like any addictive drug.
 
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The Nimble Pianist said:
I don't mean to badger this to death, but would you favor a bill that restricted what rappers could rap about? I'm trying to understand where you draw the line in actually banning something simply due to how children might (and indeed do) use it.
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First off, I think tobacco products have very little redeeming social value because nicotine is highly addictive and smoking kills hundreds of thousands of people. Using tobacco doesn't make people healthier or smarter or happier and in fact it's quite dangerous. We, as a society have placed restrictions on other dangerous products, like lawn darts and brass knuckles. So this isn't something new. And tobacco products, like guns and alcohol, have a special status in the marketplace.

Compare tobacco to products like superglue or brake cleaner. Those do have redeeming social value, and even though kids can get high off of those products by huffing them, they're not designed to appeal to kids and they aren't marketed to them. So banning them makes no sense.

But fruit and candy tobacco products are specifically targeted at kids. The displays in the store, the packaging, the sugary taste, everything. That's the distinction. They are (cynically) marketed this way knowing that kids will eventually become loyal, addicted customers. Addiction to tobacco is a social ill that is entirely preventable if more people aren't tempted to try smoking when they're young. One very effective way is removing those temptations from the marketplace. Again, anything to prevent teen smoking is good in my book.

Tobacco companies don't make tobacco products that are flavored with tastes adults like but kids think are gross, like coffee, whiskey or bitters. The tobacco companies know perfectly well what they're doing.
 
First of all, tobacco companies do make adult flavored cigarettes and cigars. They're called cigarettes and cigars. Secondly, there's absolutely is fruit flavored alcohol and sweet tasting coffee.
 
dirtywick said:
First of all, tobacco companies do make adult flavored cigarettes and cigars. They're called cigarettes and cigars.
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Yes, that's the point. Tobacco smoke is pretty disgusting tasting to kids so they cover it up with fruit and candy flavoring to make it more appealing to first timers.

dirtywick said:
Secondly, there's absolutely is fruit flavored alcohol and sweet tasting coffee.
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Fruit flavored alcohol is a pretty broad category. There's a huge distinction between the marketing and packaging of something like a vodka with some currant essence thrown in and alcopop.

I doubt many serious adult drinkers find sugary swill like Mike's Hard Lemonade appealing. That stuff is made for people who haven't developed the acquired taste for alcohol yet, like teenagers and sorority girls.
 
oldhat said:
Yes, that's the point. Tobacco smoke is pretty disgusting tasting to kids so they cover it up with fruit and candy flavoring to make it more appealing to first timers.
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I'd say they make it more appealing to people who don't enjoy the natural flavor. I'm sure there's overlap, but I'd have to see some data as to who is buying more of these.

Fruit flavored alcohol is a pretty broad category. There's a huge distinction between the marketing and packaging of something like a vodka with some currant essence thrown in and alcopop.

I doubt many serious adult drinkers find sugary swill like Mike's Hard Lemonade appealing. That stuff is made for people who haven't developed the acquired taste for alcohol yet, like teenagers and sorority girls.
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Guess everyone has an opinion, and mine is I doubt these products exist for children, but for people who like sweet flavors and are primarily adults.
 
To be more specific, this is what I think:

These uncovered documents are the old ones from the 80's and earlier. I don't think tobacco companies do this purposefully to nearly the extent that they once did, if at all. Tobacco companies are probably the most heavily scrutinized and penalized industries in the history of everything ever.

Furthermore, people want to smoke and drink, and find the types of products they enjoy and buy them. Even serious drinkers, because there's not a bar in town that doesn't serve a margarita or have some apple puckers or rose tequila or those other broad drinks.

Finally, marketing on children works because they badger their parents into buying the items they're marketing them at, because kids don't have any money. You can put a box of Frosted Flakes with Tony the Tiger on the bottom shelf where kids see it and they'll throw a fit to get it, and some parents cave. Do that with a bottle of liquor with Jim the Alcoholic Armadillo or a pack of blunts with Strawberry Shortcakes smoking one, forget it, no parent is going to buy that for their child/teen, it'd be insane. In a time when the tobacco industry is much more heavily regulated and scrutinized, and awareness is what it is, I don't buy that marketing to children like that could possibly work like when it did when carding wasn't enforced much. I'd bet that exposure to tobacco products among teens is more likely from them either stealing or getting cigarettes from their parents/adult peers(respectively) who are outside of that target group being adults and all...unless adults actually buy this "kiddie" **** too, in which case it's marketed to everyone anyway.

But that's what I think.
 
In any case (this thread has gone a bit off course).

The OP has nothing to do with children or advertising to such a segment of the population.

It's about outright banning flavored tobacco, except menthol, seemingly at the lobbying of a single corporation with vested interest.

This whole thing seems rather shady, and I call shenanigans.
 
Getting back to the FDA bill it is yet another bill that will end up doing more harm than good. Take the tobacco product snuss this a pretty heavily studied product that has so far shown very few side effects and almost none of that of smoking tobacco and yet it is illegal for the makers to market the product as safer than smoking. If theoretically a cig could be developed with zero side effects and lets say improve your health well those researchers broke the law and they could not market the product. This bill is stright out of the teetotaler or abstince only playbook that sees harm reduction as evil.
 
I have no problem with banning flavored cigarettes, though I don't think they handled the menthol exception so well.

Despite the talk of "flavor" in cigarette ads, a person who smokes for the first time generally has an unpleasant experience. It's primarily addiction that makes smoking into something pleasant. I think menthol was added as a way to make the smoking more accessible (and probably as a way of getting brand loyalty or at least brand distinction). I would see any fruit flavoring as the same sort of thing. I don't know (or even care overly much) if it's aimed at children or non-smokers 18 and over.

I support reasonable measure to make it harder for people to get hooked (and this includes increasing nicotine content).

ETA: If filters weren't so deeply entrenched, I'd be in favor of getting rid of them too. They're an attempt to soften the harshness of the smoke and to make people think that it somehow makes cigarette smoking safer. Again, the result is more addiction.
 
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Does this only affect cigarettes or does it also cover cigars and cigarellos?

I ask because it would force companies like Swisher virtually out of business in the US.

(Not that I feel it would be a bad thing)
 
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The Nimble Pianist said:
In any case (this thread has gone a bit off course).

The OP has nothing to do with children or advertising to such a segment of the population.
It's about outright banning flavored tobacco, except menthol, seemingly at the lobbying of a single corporation with vested interest.

This whole thing seems rather shady, and I call shenanigans.
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Yes it does, because the existance of those products has been stated by the manufacturer's documents to be for just such a purpose.
 
oldhat said:
I doubt many serious adult drinkers find sugary swill like Mike's Hard Lemonade appealing. That stuff is made for people who haven't developed the acquired taste for alcohol yet, like teenagers and sorority girls.
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Anecdotal as it may be, almost every adult woman I know likes flavored alcohol drinks. And I like them too, on occasion, as do most of the adult men that I know.

And what about cocktails? Vodka and cran? Flavored vodka?

I can understand banning dirty marketing techniques. I can understand punishing various companies for dirty marketing techniques. I can even understand forcing the advertisements to be inherently uncool. Whatever. That's fine.

I can't understand banning the products.
 
I have a feeling banning flavored products is just going to lead to a criminal underground industry of producing flavored products, or to individuals trying to reproduce those flavors themselves - leading to many cases of poisoning and illness in the process. Isn't smoking banana peels supposed to be dangerous? I don't remember.

I can just see when that guy used to smoking whiskey-flavored cigars from our store soaks his favorite smoke in actual whiskey, and then lights it up. Whoosh! Think he'll get a bad burn from that?

Prohibition never really works. If it did, we wouldn't have a drug problem today.
 
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