New telepathy test, the sequel.

I suffer from schizoprenia. My first episode happend way back 1988. I truly believed that I am special, selected by god to be his spokesman. I also suffered from thought broadcasting and it was probably worse that what Michel is currently experiencing.

I started to search for god or way to contact god. My search ended when I ended up in jref forum. I seldom post anything, but I learned to question what I am experiencing. From believing in the existance of god without any doubt, to agnotism.

It had been good for the last 10 or more years. I had relapses but they only last for a couple of days. My medication causes lethargy and other side effects but I rather be 'sane' than skipping my meds. Accepting than I have mental issues helped me stay sane.

Yes, you guys had helped me stay sane.

Thank you. And you're not the only one. In the couple of decades I have been here, I have seen several people turning sensible. And, of course, some lost cases, but I think it is never a waste of time to insist that reality exists.

Hans
 
I suffer from schizoprenia. My first episode happend way back 1988. I truly believed that I am special, selected by god to be his spokesman. I also suffered from thought broadcasting and it was probably worse that what Michel is currently experiencing.

I started to search for god or way to contact god. My search ended when I ended up in jref forum. I seldom post anything, but I learned to question what I am experiencing. From believing in the existance of god without any doubt, to agnotism.

It had been good for the last 10 or more years. I had relapses but they only last for a couple of days. My medication causes lethargy and other side effects but I rather be 'sane' than skipping my meds. Accepting than I have mental issues helped me stay sane.

Yes, you guys had helped me stay sane.

I congratulate you on your journey, I am happy for you and thank you for your candor.

I don't see Michel being able to make that same accomplishment, I have not and don't expect to see a tinge of him starting to have any moments of clarity.
 
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Thank you

I don't see Michel being able to make that same accomplishment, I have not and don't expect to see a tinge of him starting to have any moments of clarity.
I a hoping that Michel understand that thought broadcasting is a common symptom of schizoprenia. It comes in many forms.

I remember this guy I met in the hospital. You can have a conversation with him and not realize that he has mental issues. His delusion is he is another James Bond. By himself, he'll "broadcast his thoughts" by talking to his cigarette lighter.

When we go out for outings, you'll see him describing everything that he sees by talking to his lighter.

What is worrying is if the symptoms becomes worse. When I was suffering from it, it became too bad as I thought that my thoughts would influence the listener. Say if I look up in the sky and saw a plane. I was worried that I might 'tell' the pilot to crash the plane.

It became too bad that I tried to commit suicide because of my fear that I might harm others.


------------------

The first step is accepting that you have an illness. Schizoprenia is just another illness that can happen to anybody. I know that feeling special gives you the best felling in the world, such that the person cannot let it go. Logic dictates that it is not possible so, instead of trying to prove it, the first question is what is happening and why.

--------------------

thought broadcasting

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-thought-broadcasting-5101228
 
The link you give reads in part,

Martin Gardner wrote "As Mental Radio stands, it is a highly unsatisfactory account of conditions surrounding the clairvoyancy tests. Throughout his entire life, Sinclair has been a gullible victim of mediums and psychics."
 
Thank you

I a hoping that Michel understand that thought broadcasting is a common symptom of schizoprenia. It comes in many forms.

I remember this guy I met in the hospital. You can have a conversation with him and not realize that he has mental issues. His delusion is he is another James Bond. By himself, he'll "broadcast his thoughts" by talking to his cigarette lighter.

When we go out for outings, you'll see him describing everything that he sees by talking to his lighter.

What is worrying is if the symptoms becomes worse. When I was suffering from it, it became too bad as I thought that my thoughts would influence the listener. Say if I look up in the sky and saw a plane. I was worried that I might 'tell' the pilot to crash the plane.

It became too bad that I tried to commit suicide because of my fear that I might harm others.


------------------

The first step is accepting that you have an illness. Schizoprenia is just another illness that can happen to anybody. I know that feeling special gives you the best felling in the world, such that the person cannot let it go. Logic dictates that it is not possible so, instead of trying to prove it, the first question is what is happening and why.

--------------------

thought broadcasting

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-thought-broadcasting-5101228
Alas no, as you can see from his subsequent post. Nevertheless, I am glad for you that you are dealing with it, getting over it, recovering from it. Power to you. Keep going. You are doing it right and that can only be a good thing for you and all around you.

Despite your journey, you cannot save Michel. He has to want to save himself first. And he doesn't.

Keep the ground you fought so hard for. Michel will only drag you back. You have my respect.
 
Yup. Dabbled in it some 35 years ago.

It's utter bollocks.

Now what?
Einstein had a great respect for Upton Sinclair's work, and I have respect for this work too.

In the preface he wrote for the German edition, he said:
I have read the book of Upton Sinclair with great interest and am convinced that the same deserves the most earnest consideration, not only of the laity, but also of the psychologists by profession. The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and plainly set forth in this book stand surely far beyond those which a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand, it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability are not to be doubted.
(https://www.gutenberg.org/files/63693/63693-h/63693-h.htm).

Remarkably, Sinclair found that telepathy can occur even at great distances:
Telepathy, or mind-reading: that is to say, can one human mind communicate with another human mind, except by the sense channels ordinarily known and used—seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting and touching? Can a thought or image in one mind be sent directly to another mind and there reproduced and recognized? If this can be done, how is it done? Is it some kind of vibration, going out from the brain, like radio broadcasting? Or is it some contact with a deeper level of mind, as bubbles on a stream have contact with the water of the stream? And if this power exists, can it be developed and used? Is it something that manifests itself now and then, like a lightning flash, over which we have no control? Or can we make the energy and store it, and use it regularly, as we have learned to do with the lightning which Franklin brought from the clouds?

These are the questions; and the answers, as well as I can summarize them, are as follows: Telepathy is real; it does happen. Whatever may be the nature of the force, it has nothing to do with distance, for it works exactly as well over forty miles as over a few feet. And while it may be spontaneous and may depend upon a special endowment, it can be cultivated and used deliberately, as any other object of study, in physics and chemistry. The essential in this training is an art of mental concentration and auto-suggestion, which can be learned. I am going to tell you not merely what you can do, but how you can do it, so that if you have patience and real interest, you can make your own contribution to knowledge.

Now we understand better why moderator Loss Leader said (in my second ESP test):
I am seeing a 4 very clearly. It's almost as though I had written it myself.
.

His number was proven to be a correct answer. I was in Belgium, and I believe he was probably on the East Coast of the U.S. (Florida or perhaps New York).
 
I don't know which logic you are talking about.

Haven't you heard or read about telepathy?
Michel,

As I said, thought broadcasting is a common symptom of schizoprenia, therefore there has to be several millions of people broadcasting their thoughts.

Have you received at least one, and can you identify the source of that message.
 
Now we understand better why moderator Loss Leader said (in my second ESP test):
We already understand perfectly why Loss Leader made that post, Michel. We understood even before he told us himself, very clearly. Please stop calling this respected, much missed, moderator a liar.

We also agree with Einstein that the claims of a sincere investigator like Upton Sinclair deserve earnest consideration. The time and resources that have been devoted to testing and disproving such claims in the subsequent decades were not wasted. They not only demonstrated that telepathy does not exist, they taught us a great deal about cognitive biases and how easily even sincere investigators can be fooled by them if they don't carefully exclude their effect by rigorous use of the scientific method.
 
Yup. Dabbled in it some 35 years ago.

It's utter bollocks.

Now what?
Einstein had a great respect for Upton Sinclair's work, and I have respect for this work too.

In the preface he wrote for the German edition, he said:
I have read the book of Upton Sinclair with great interest and am convinced that the same deserves the most earnest consideration, not only of the laity, but also of the psychologists by profession. The results of the telepathic experiments carefully and plainly set forth in this book stand surely far beyond those which a nature investigator holds to be thinkable. On the other hand, it is out of the question in the case of so conscientious an observer and writer as Upton Sinclair that he is carrying on a conscious deception of the reading world; his good faith and dependability are not to be doubted.
(https://www.gutenberg.org/files/63693/63693-h/63693-h.htm).
Why did you leave out the rest of the quote? That is dishonest.

Remarkably, Sinclair found that telepathy can occur even at great distances:
Telepathy, or mind-reading: that is to say, can one human mind communicate with another human mind, except by the sense channels ordinarily known and used—seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting and touching? Can a thought or image in one mind be sent directly to another mind and there reproduced and recognized? If this can be done, how is it done? Is it some kind of vibration, going out from the brain, like radio broadcasting? Or is it some contact with a deeper level of mind, as bubbles on a stream have contact with the water of the stream? And if this power exists, can it be developed and used? Is it something that manifests itself now and then, like a lightning flash, over which we have no control? Or can we make the energy and store it, and use it regularly, as we have learned to do with the lightning which Franklin brought from the clouds?
Bilge.

These are the questions; and the answers, as well as I can summarize them, are as follows: Telepathy is real; it does happen. Whatever may be the nature of the force, it has nothing to do with distance, for it works exactly as well over forty miles as over a few feet. And while it may be spontaneous and may depend upon a special endowment, it can be cultivated and used deliberately, as any other object of study, in physics and chemistry. The essential in this training is an art of mental concentration and auto-suggestion, which can be learned. I am going to tell you not merely what you can do, but how you can do it, so that if you have patience and real interest, you can make your own contribution to knowledge.

Now we understand better why moderator Loss Leader said (in my second ESP test):
I am seeing a 4 very clearly. It's almost as though I had written it myself.
.
Yet more bilge.

His number was proven to be a correct answer. I was in Belgium, and I believe he was probably on the East Coast of the U.S. (Florida or perhaps New York).
But he stated he was joking. Why do you ignore that? Does that make LL unreliable or not? Why and/or why not?
 
Einstein had a great respect for Upton Sinclair's work, and I have respect for this work too.



In the preface he wrote for the German edition, he said:



(https://www.gutenberg.org/files/63693/63693-h/63693-h.htm).



Remarkably, Sinclair found that telepathy can occur even at great distances:





Now we understand better why moderator Loss Leader said (in my second ESP test):

.



His number was proven to be a correct answer. I was in Belgium, and I believe he was probably on the East Coast of the U.S. (Florida or perhaps New York).
Einstein said the question deserved more research, which subsequently occurred and failed to confirm Sinclair's hypothesis. Einstein himself did not speculate on what physics operated in Sinclair's thinking, not did he propose any physical explanation himself for it. To suggest that Sinclair's theory was endorsed by a noted physicist at the time, and that this endorsement conveyed approval of the physics community or relied upon testable principles of physics is dishonest. Students of the man's life note his problematic relationship with mystical claims and claimants.

On the other hand you, a claimed physicist, have hypothesized that electromagnetic radiation is the mechanism by which your thought projection occurs. But unlike a physicist, you have failed to present any physical-science details for that claim, and you have stumbled around in apparent ignorance when others have questioned you on it. And unlike a good scientist, you are entirely unfamiliar with prior work on your subject. You demand references from others in their rebuttals, but the only "reference" you provided was a Reddit thread outlining the difficulty in transmitting radio waves globally, and how much power and apparatus is required.

Regarding your continued dishonesty toward Loss Leader, the best we can say is that it violates your own protocol. The protocol provides that "credibility" estimates can be challenged. The participants and observers of your experiment are unanimous in objecting to your estimate of Loss Leader's answer. But you overruled it all, showing that review of your subjective judgment is meaningless and that your protocol is irreproducible and unscientific.

Finally you are trying to prove that a well-established delusional symptom of mental illness is in fact true. And you are using yourself as the subject. Part of an appropriate subject screening would require that outside authority test and certify that you, and all other subjects, are free from the illnesses for which the incident phenomenon is a symptom. Otherwise you won't be sure what principle is responsible for the observed outcome. Did you do that?
 
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Michel,

As I said, thought broadcasting is a common symptom of schizoprenia, therefore there has to be several millions of people broadcasting their thoughts.

Have you received at least one, and can you identify the source of that message.
I don't (at least, knowingly) perceive thoughts of others, but I often hear voices in my head.

I generally don't know who are these apparently female voices in my head, but, sometimes I seem to hear car drivers say a few simple words while honking their horns.

I don't know the exact role that genuine telepathy plays in psychiatry. It is possible that many psychiatric patients experience real telepathy and real thought broadcasting, and it is unfortunate that these phenomena (if real) are not better understood for what they are.

My advice to people who experience real thought broadcasting would be to try to not panic about this.
 
We already understand perfectly why Loss Leader made that post, Michel. We understood even before he told us himself, very clearly. Please stop calling this respected, much missed, moderator a liar.
Loss Leader (a fairly bright and interesting moderator on this forum) denied for a while that his admission of telepathy had been serious, but, in his last comment on this topic, he seemed to confirm that genuine telepathy had taken place:
... Early on, I used my telepathic powers to see into your ... mind and pull out the number you were thinking of. You did not feel aggressively towards me back then so your thoughts were very easy to read and you did not change your answer when you knew I was right. ...
Loss Leader admission of telepathy is in line with many comments I have received about my broadcasting "abilities". For example (already cited):
Terra Tourist said:
Hey! I got it right. Thanks Michel H for this little experiment. It's funny what you said about guessing the number 1. It's a number I would also typically avoid. But this time, I believe I did see you writing it on a page, so that's why I went with it, despite my knee-jerk reluctance.

Thanks again.
(http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1423682&postcount=23)
or:
... I do indeed have ESP, and know for a fact that he wrote 2!

I think that, by decreeing that Loss Leader's posts were jokes or lies, you are the one (with others) who is actually manipulating data, and projecting your own preferred belief onto an test answer which was clear:
I am seeing a 4 very clearly. It's almost as though I had written it myself.
.

I am just using Loss Leader's posts (and his only correct answer, giving him a 100% hit rate in my tests) as an important testimony on an educational forum. I am not trying to project my own preconceived ideas or prejudices on his comments, I am just using what he said which is simple enough (and is similar to what others said), without trying to distort it.
 
I don't (at least, knowingly) perceive thoughts of others, but I often hear voices in my head.



I generally don't know who are these apparently female voices in my head, but, sometimes I seem to hear car drivers say a few simple words while honking their horns.



I don't know the exact role that genuine telepathy plays in psychiatry. It is possible that many psychiatric patients experience real telepathy and real thought broadcasting, and it is unfortunate that these phenomena (if real) are not better understood for what they are.



My advice to people who experience real thought broadcasting would be to try to not panic about this.
"Thought broadcasting" is thoroughly understood as a symptom of mental illness. Despite decades of research, no evidence has emerged of it as an actual physical phenomenon. Your proposal does nothing to change that, because it's obviously unscientific.
 
See my reply to Pixel42 above.
You did nothing to address it as a violation of your own protocol. You've simply reinforced that you and only you are the final arbiter of any decisions regarding the validity of data. That makes it a biased experiment.

In addition, your repeated misrepresentation of a beloved former moderator of this forum means you have crossed the line from pseudoscience and have become personally offensive. Do not expect much further indulgence from this forum for your self-serving anti-scientific rants.
 
Michel said:
I don't (at least, knowingly) perceive thoughts of others, but I often hear voices in my head.

I generally don't know who are these apparently female voices in my head, but, sometimes I seem to hear car drivers say a few simple words while honking their horns.

I don't know the exact role that genuine telepathy plays in psychiatry. It is possible that many psychiatric patients experience real telepathy and real thought broadcasting, and it is unfortunate that these phenomena (if real) are not better understood for what they are.
Michel,

What you described is called auditory hallucination. There is also what is called thought insertion. They too, are common symptoms of schizoprenia. I've been there. visual/auditory hallucination and thought insertion.

Michel said:
My advice to people who experience real thought broadcasting would be to try to not panic about this.


I hope that what you are experiencing does not get to the point that you'll be a danger to your self. There is no way to stop thoughts entering our head. Sometimes, we think of things but we do not act on it. For example, the tought of "wish he was dead" might enter our mind but we don't normally act on it. Extreme fear of harming others specially our love ones, will cause us to do things, like hitting your head againts the wall to remove those toughts from our head. There is what is called paranoid schizoprenia.
 
You did nothing to address it as a violation of your own protocol. You've simply reinforced that you and only you are the final arbiter of any decisions regarding the validity of data. That makes it a biased experiment.
Loss Leader did not violate the protocol of my test.

If you legitimately think Loss Leader's answer wasn't credible, you have a right to present arguments which really show that his answer shouldn't be considered as serious and reliable (this is actually part of my method, it's a security feature).

However, there isn't much you could say about his answer:
I am seeing a 4 very clearly. It's almost as though I had written it myself.
.

Your rejection of this answer is simply a reflection of your current prejudices and preconceived ideas, and this is not something I can accept as an argument. It should be obvious to all that one cannot do a telepathy test seriously if one decides beforehand to violently reject as utter nonsense any clear testimony of extra-sensory perception.
 

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