New telepathy test, the sequel.

Michel H said:
Telepathy test protocols don't need to be complicated, I have gradually simplified them (and I have also dropped the "I don't know" option). The target in this test (chosen by the random number generator I used via the correspondence 3 → C) was "C", not "I don't know".

The small number of options is not a problem from the point of view of statistical evidence because I usually get several answers, and tests may be repeated. It has the fundamental advantage of making tests easier for people (both technically and psychologically).

There were a few unusual things about Wayf's answer, can you find them?
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You do not understand simplicity. For the purposes of this "experiment", a one from 100 choice test has no more complexity than a one from 3 choice test, using the same process.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Michel, what level of confidence do you attach to the answer, "C - for crock of *****. This isn't your goddamned experimental site"? Since this is clearly a hostile response, have you chosen to discount it on those grounds, or have you decided to suspend your customary assignation of a low confidence level to a hostile or non-serious answer because in this case it happens to match the answer you wanted to get?

Dave
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When you try to read between the lines, to interpret answers, you have to do it well. Actually, I think that many people are able to do this, but will they say openly what they really think inside themselves? This is an entirely different issue.

Wayf did not come across as fundamentally hostile to me. He did (to me) seem tense and nervous, and did indeed display some limited and superficial aggressivity, by suggesting I was in the wrong place.

However, he said:
This isn't your ... experimental site.
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This does suggest that I am some kind of important scientist (he could say that, this doesn't bother me), who might have his own "experimental site".

You may also have noticed that Wayf is a top contributor, with the highest best answer rate, of the five people who took part in the test.
 
Michel H said:
When you try to read between the lines, to interpret answers, you have to do it well.
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Wrong; when you openly cherry pick to get the result you want, you have to do it dishonestly.

Michel H said:
Wayf did not come across as fundamentally hostile to me.
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I can see why you think you need to be telepathic; you can't draw simple inferences like, for example, that repeatedly swearing at you conveys hostility.

Really, if you wanted to destroy any credibility you had, you couldn't be doing better.

Dave
 
Michel H said:
... This does suggest that I am some kind of important scientist (he could say that, this doesn't bother me), who might have his own "experimental site"...
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No. Any reasonable person would infer exactly the opposite meaning: that if you were a proper scientist, doing work that was in any way serious or thorough, you would have set up an experimental site for your tests. Since you haven't, you obviously aren't.

The fact that you formed the wrong impression from his biting comment, that he thinks you may be an "important scientist", is another clear example of your mind playing tricks on you. You twisted his meaning to support your continued delusion.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
No. Any reasonable person would infer exactly the opposite meaning: that if you were a proper scientist, doing work that was in any way serious or thorough, you would have set up an experimental site for your tests. Since you haven't, you obviously aren't.

The fact that you formed the wrong impression from his biting comment, that he thinks you may be an "important scientist", is another clear example of your mind playing tricks on you. You twisted his meaning to support your continued delusion.
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I really don't see why I should set up an "experimental site" for my tests, my tests are not of an "automatic" kind, like for example the solo clairvoyance test on this (fairly good) website: http://www.psychicscience.org/esp3.aspx.

My tests are tests between the "rest of the word" (no lack of respect meant here) and myself, I need to be active and involved by repeating the "target" from time to time (sometimes with some help from the apparent telepathic voices in my head, who often cooperate when I ask) .
 
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Michel H said:
My tests are a test between the "rest of the word" (no lack of respect meant here) and myself, I need to be active and involved by repeating the "target" from time to time (sometimes with some help from the apparent telepathic voices in my head) .
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Do you, then, experience thoughts and internal voices that appear to you to be originating from some consciousness other than your own?

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
Do you, then, experience thoughts and internal voices that appear to you to be originating from some consciousness other than your own?

Dave
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I would not call these voices "internal", because I have strong impression that these (generally female) voices are voices of other people, but I do hear them "inside my head", not through my ears.
 
Michel H said:
I would not call these voices "internal", because I have strong impression that these (generally female) voices are voices of other people, but I do hear them "inside my head", not through my ears.
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So do you believe that you are telepathically receiving the thoughts of others, as well as transmitting yours to everyone? Do you believe you can receive thoughts from anyone, or do you believe there only a limited subset of people can transmit their thoughts to you?

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
So do you believe that you are telepathically receiving the thoughts of others, as well as transmitting yours to everyone? Do you believe you can receive thoughts from anyone, or do you believe there only a limited subset of people can transmit their thoughts to you?

Dave
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When the mysterious voices in my head talk to me telepathically (I suppose), they are actually not revealing their own thoughts, which remain completely private (as far as I know). They are actually whispering to me telepathically (I suppose), but if, for example, they lied, I would have no extra-sensory way of knowing for sure, as I don't know their thoughts.

My case is different, in the sense that I am (or seem to be) unable to keep my thoughts private, because of a curious ESP anomaly. I seem to be "the big thought-leaker", as if nature had oddly decided that my thoughts are so important that they could not remain private. This phenomenon seems to be overall well tolerated, and not driving people crazy.
 
Michel H said:
My case is different, in the sense that I am (or seem to be) unable to keep my thoughts private, because of a curious ESP anomaly. I seem to be "the big thought-leaker", as if nature had oddly decided that my thoughts are so important that they could not remain private. This phenomenon seems to be overall well tolerated, and not driving people crazy.
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And you believe yourself to be unique in this respect?

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
And you believe yourself to be unique in this respect?

Dave
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Yes, I suppose I am unique (regarding these apparent telepathy phenomena) at the present time, and, as far as I know, there is no historical precedent. It is, however, possible that such psychic phenomena have actually occurred before, but have simply not been recorded in "history".
 
Michel H said:
Yes, I suppose I am unique (regarding these apparent telepathy phenomena) at the present time, and, as far as I know, there is no historical precedent. It is, however, possible that such psychic phenomena have actually occurred before, but have simply not been recorded in "history".
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What would your opinion be if some random individual approached you and said that "I hear voices"?

What would you think?
 
abaddon said:
What would your opinion be if some random individual approached you and said that "I hear voices"?

What would you think?
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I am not a psychiatrist, I don't want to try to play one, so I must tread carefully.

I don't claim to know everything but, perhaps, I would be suspicious.

A known example of a voice-hearer is Eleanor Longden who gave a TED talk in 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syjEN3peCJw .This was mentioned on this forum by Dan O. (who is no longer with us [banned]), in one of the telepathy threads that I began, a few years ago.

My default point of view regarding "schizophrenic voices" is that it is an entirely made up disease, non-existent and invented by patients and psychiatrists. This idea of "voices commenting the patient's action with a neutral voice" just doesn't make much sense to me, I just don't find it credible (but I don't claim to be an expert, I have not met many voice sufferers).
 
Michel H said:
I am not a psychiatrist, I don't want to try to play one, so I must tread carefully.

I don't claim to know everything but, perhaps, I would be suspicious.

A known example of a voice-hearer is Eleanor Longden who gave a TED talk in 2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syjEN3peCJw .This was mentioned on this forum by Dan O. (who is no longer with us [banned]), in one of the telepathy threads that I began, a few years ago.

My default point of view regarding "schizophrenic voices" is that it is an entirely made up disease, non-existent and invented by patients and psychiatrists. This idea of "voices commenting the patient's action with a neutral voice" just doesn't make much sense to me, I just don't find it credible (but I don't claim to be an expert, I have not met many voice sufferers).
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Wow. I didn't think it was possible to be that self unaware.
 
Michel H said:
...
My default point of view regarding "schizophrenic voices" is that it is an entirely made up disease, non-existent and invented by patients and psychiatrists.....
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What a heartless and stupid thing to say. I guess you don't actually know any families with a schizophrenic member?

I grew up with one. My best friends brother. He hung himself from a bridge while out from hospital on a day pass.

You need help. Really.
 
The Sparrow said:
What a heartless and stupid thing to say. I guess you don't actually know any families with a schizophrenic member?

I grew up with one. My best friends brother. He hung himself from a bridge while out from hospital on a day pass.

You need help. Really.
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I am actually in a situation somewhat comparable to yours because, when I was about 20 years old (that was a long ago, because I am 59 now), a friend of a good friend, that I knew a little, also committed suicide by hanging.

When people have serious mental issues, the priority is probably the good of the patient, no matter which method is used.

But these terrible events (btw I often hear voices who try to "convince" me to kill myself) do not mean that, when a pretty girl says, in front of a camera "I heard a voice tell me 'She leaves the room' ", she is really sincere and genuine, and she really "heard" that. Perhaps she just repeated something she read in a medical book.
 
Michel H said:
I am actually in a situation somewhat comparable to yours because, when I was about 20 years old (that was a long ago, because I am 59 now), a friend of a good friend, that I knew a little, also committed suicide by hanging.

When people have serious mental issues, the priority is probably the good of the patient, no matter which method is used.

But these terrible events (btw I often hear voices who try to "convince" me to kill myself) do not mean that, when a pretty girl says, in front of a camera "I heard a voice tell me 'She leaves the room' ", she is really sincere and genuine, and she really "heard" that. Perhaps she just repeated something she read in a medical book.
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What the hell are you talking about.
 
Michel H said:
My default point of view regarding "schizophrenic voices" is that it is an entirely made up disease, non-existent and invented by patients and psychiatrists. This idea of "voices commenting the patient's action with a neutral voice" just doesn't make much sense to me, I just don't find it credible (but I don't claim to be an expert, I have not met many voice sufferers).
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Well, then you haven't met me.

After surgery, I developed a condition called ICU Psychosis. I heard voices that could not have existed (I believed that I heard a baby crying so desperately that I made my wife go check). I heard messages in the various beeping of the machines and heard people communicating with each other through my oxygen mask. I also watched an entire movie* that not only did not exist but the television I thought I watched it on didn't exist, either.

At the time, I was perfectly convinced of my own sanity and of the malicious intent of all those around me. I tried to choke my wife to death (but, since I was confined to my bed and as weak as a newborn, she just took a step back).

Luckily, ICU Psychosis is a temporary condition that fades when the patient gets normal sleep and sufficient non-monotonous stimulation. It's a strange position to be in. I remember things that could not have possibly been true, I remember believing them, and I know now that they didn't happen.

In my experience, the psychotic or schizophrenic person is the absolute worst judge of whether he or she is sick.


*The plot was that there was this young Indian man who would scam rich people out of their money by promising to put their daughters in a movie he was directing. Then, when he falls in love with one of his marks, he has to actually produce an entire Bollywood movie to stay near her.
 
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