New study: Marijuana useful for treating pain

[One Eyed Jack]

Possibly the same thing?

Some pain can be relieved by altering the mental state; especially with obsessive/compulsive personalities.
Some pain is psychological.

Imagine the pain of an old person dying, even if there was no physical pain.
Said person deserves a chance at the distraction and comfort that might be possible with a joint and an old favorite record.

It is certainly easy enough, in that situation, to legally obtain all manner of other drugs of dubious purpose.

Pretty weak arguments. There are plenty of methods for pain management other than MJ. I really have no sympathy for people that need the high any more than a smoker that needs another cigarette or an alcoholic that needs another drink. It was a choice they made to go down that road.

Let's quit kidding ourselves. A large portion of people that favor medical marijuana, don't favor it for medical reasons.

I'm fine with legalization and regulation just like alcohol. I just want people to be honest about their motives.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Pretty weak arguments. There are plenty of methods for pain management other than MJ. I really have no sympathy for people that need the high any more than a smoker that needs another cigarette or an alcoholic that needs another drink. It was a choice they made to go down that road.

Let's quit kidding ourselves. A large portion of people that favor medical marijuana, don't favor it for medical reasons.

I'm fine with legalization and regulation just like alcohol. I just want people to be honest about their motives.

I've always been clear, I want it legal because the government lacks the moral authority to make it illegal. And yes, I want to get high but I can do that whether or not it's legal.

That being said I think it's silly to completely ignore the medical side of this. If it makes people feel better why not let them use it? If I get a cold bad enough that it makes me stay home smoking a joint can greatly increase the quality of my life during that time.

For the record I don't think of MJ as being effective against pain. On that front it's pretty much a bust IMHO.

I do think it's great for making you forget that you are hurting though. It's also great for dealing with appetite and nausea problems.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Let me ask the question another way. What possible reason is there for it being illegal in the first place? I'm not asking historically why it happened. I'm asking for a justification to keep it illegal. Even if you are a moral crusader type it's obvious that keeping it illegal is causing more pain than it cures.

 

[Beth]

Pretty weak arguments. There are plenty of methods for pain management other than MJ.

I gather that the other methods of pain management have far worse and more debilitating side effects. One of the advantages of using MJ for chronic pain is that most of the legally available prescription pain killers are seriously unhealthy to use over an extended period of time. MJ isn't perfect, but it won't destroy a person's liver nor can they accidentally overdose on it.

Let's quit kidding ourselves. A large portion of people that favor medical marijuana, don't favor it for medical reasons.

I'm fine with legalization and regulation just like alcohol. I just want people to be honest about their motives.

While I favor straight up legalization, if that's not in the cards, I also favor legalization for medical purposes because I think people in chronic pain should have the option if that's what will work best for them.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

The goal of pain management is to control the pain without leaving the patient in a haze. The goal of getting high IS the haze.

I'm with One Eye Jack on this. Given regulation, I don't have a problem with medical use. I do have a problem with people trying to use medical use as a lever to open up unlimited use.

This is deceptive, and as others before me have noted, it makes people distort the facts about the plant and what it does or does not do. The fiber-production legalization crowd exaggerates what hemp fiber can do. If we were going to have a bast fiber based economy, we would have based it on linen, which is a stronger, smoother fiber, and grows like grass.

If we were going to use smoked THC instead of pharmaceuticals for lots of medical uses we would. In fact, we DO use THC for the tiny nitch market for which it has an actual medical use. We just don't use it in smoked form. Smoking just isn't a good way of getting medications into the bloodstream in controlled amounts. It peaks too fast to last very long, and it comes at the price of every health risk of smoking in general, made worse by the lack of filters and the different smoking technique. It's a GREAT way of getting high, and every time I hear someone talking about 'smoking better controls my dose' I know what they're REALLY saying is 'smoking lets me get as high as I want'.

What pot advocates aren't realizing is that this is transparent to everyone but them. When they lie about what hemp can do, and lie about medical useage, they hurt the case for any legalization. That's why this isn't getting momentum.

From a philosophical standpoint, I don't advocate drug use because I respect the human mind, and I believe that drugs enslave it. What people are asking for here is the freedom to put on their own shackles. I grew up on a commune in kentucky. I'm a child of the 60's. I've had all the smoke I'll ever need, and most of it just drifted by for the taking. I've seen how people dream big dreams, and lose the force of will to put them into place. That's part of what subverted the hippie movement. Why wake up and act when the dreams are so damn nice? I like to dream big and make my dreams happen. I like to be free, and especially free in my mind. In the name of taking off one set of shackles, people put on another. The 'freedom' to do drugs is a joke. It's nothing more than the freedom to be a slave. If you can't get through the day without drugs, you can rant and rave all you want about the man and the government and the taking back your freedom, but you're a slave, and your freedom is a joke.

A

 

[NewtonTrino]

The goal of pain management is to control the pain without leaving the patient in a haze. The goal of getting high IS the haze.

In other words it's only ok for people to manage pain without getting high? And your opinion on this should be taken as gospel why?

I'm with One Eye Jack on this. Given regulation, I don't have a problem with medical use. I do have a problem with people trying to use medical use as a lever to open up unlimited use.

This is deceptive, and as others before me have noted, it makes people distort the facts about the plant and what it does or does not do. The fiber-production legalization crowd exaggerates what hemp fiber can do. If we were going to have a bast fiber based economy, we would have based it on linen, which is a stronger, smoother fiber, and grows like grass.

The political reality is that you have to do what works. I'm not a fan of twisting science for bs reasons either and I'm positive some people are pushing the limit here. However, if getting high helps someone manage their life under what authority do we get to decide to throw them in jail?

If we were going to use smoked THC instead of pharmaceuticals for lots of medical uses we would. In fact, we DO use THC for the tiny nitch market for which it has an actual medical use. We just don't use it in smoked form. Smoking just isn't a good way of getting medications into the bloodstream in controlled amounts. It peaks too fast to last very long, and it comes at the price of every health risk of smoking in general, made worse by the lack of filters and the different smoking technique. It's a GREAT way of getting high, and every time I hear someone talking about 'smoking better controls my dose' I know what they're REALLY saying is 'smoking lets me get as high as I want'.

And what if being high helps them manage their pain? You aren't them, you don't get a say in this.

What pot advocates aren't realizing is that this is transparent to everyone but them. When they lie about what hemp can do, and lie about medical useage, they hurt the case for any legalization. That's why this isn't getting momentum.

No momentum? There are literally hundreds of store front marijuana shops in California. I'm not sure where you're getting your information.

From a philosophical standpoint, I don't advocate drug use because I respect the human mind, and I believe that drugs enslave it. What people are asking for here is the freedom to put on their own shackles. I grew up on a commune in kentucky. I'm a child of the 60's. I've had all the smoke I'll ever need, and most of it just drifted by for the taking. I've seen how people dream big dreams, and lose the force of will to put them into place. That's part of what subverted the hippie movement. Why wake up and act when the dreams are so damn nice? I like to dream big and make my dreams happen. I like to be free, and especially free in my mind. In the name of taking off one set of shackles, people put on another. The 'freedom' to do drugs is a joke. It's nothing more than the freedom to be a slave. If you can't get through the day without drugs, you can rant and rave all you want about the man and the government and the taking back your freedom, but you're a slave, and your freedom is a joke.

A

Ah, finally we get to your real objection. You're riding so high on your moral high horse that you're head is stuck in the clouds. If you respected the human mind you would respect peoples decisions and not try to be their mommy.

You might want to reconsider your stoner stereotypes as it's getting a little tired.

 

[quarky]

Pretty weak arguments. There are plenty of methods for pain management other than MJ. I really have no sympathy for people that need the high any more than a smoker that needs another cigarette or an alcoholic that needs another drink. It was a choice they made to go down that road.

Let's quit kidding ourselves. A large portion of people that favor medical marijuana, don't favor it for medical reasons.

I'm fine with legalization and regulation just like alcohol. I just want people to be honest about their motives.

In view of the myriad drugs prescribed for just about anything in the U.S., I'm not sure what constitutes a 'medical' reason of legitimacy.

 

[CORed]

Allow me to weigh in. I am a professional, semi-pro athlete, cannabis user and part-time cannabis legalization activist.

To answer the original question, there are plenty of reasons that cannabis remains illegal, none of them logical.

The biggest is money. There is trillions of dollars worth of the economy tied up in cannabis prohibition. So many organizations benefit it can be hard to keep track. Here's just a few of the major benefactors...

-Law enforcemnent from the DEA to local cops and everything in between. 700,000 marijuana related arrests annually in the US.
-Private prison industry and prison guards. 1 in 32 US adults is in the justice system with the 'war on drugs' being a major contributor.
-Drug treatment industry. Drug courts send thousands to 'treatment' programs even though cannabis arguably has a lower potential for addiction than caffeine.
-Alcohol and beer makers. Many view medical cannabis as a stepping stone to out and out legalization and the alcohol industry put a fair amount of money behind keeping cannabis restricted.
The list goes on and on and on.

I should also note that this study is not alone. There have been a number of promising studies that show that cannabis may have a lot to offer in other areas. As you pointed out however, research is very difficult. The supply for any study must be obtained from the federal govt through the National Institute for Drug Abuse (NIDA). Not only do they make it prohibitively expensive, but they tend only fund studies that will support their anti-cannabis stance.

A good example is the work or Dr. Tashkin at UCLA who conducted a large study of cannabis and lung cancer. NIDA happily funded his study but when the data suggested that cannabis users actually had a slightly lower incidence of lung cancer than the general population, they refused to publish the study. Dr. Tashkin was left to publicize his work and, not surprisingly, it got almost no attention in the press.

If the alcohol industry considers marijuana to be a threat, I think they are misguided. When I used weed, I used it in addition to alcohol, not instead of it, as did most of the people I knew who used it. I'm a strong believer in legalization. I quit using the stuff (mostly, I still indulge once in a great while), not because it was ruining my life (but I will concede that for some people it can ruin their life), but because I found I really didn't enjoy it that much any more. I will say that I think my mind is a bit clearer now that I don't use it, but it's not a huge difference.

 

[Beth]

The goal of pain management is to control the pain without leaving the patient in a haze. The goal of getting high IS the haze.

The problem with this response is that is doesn't look at MJ in comparison to what is being used currently. MJ doesn't create near the mental haze that most (if not all) other prescription painkillers do IMO. If I had to take painkillers on a regular basis, I would prefer MJ for that reason alone.

Smoking just isn't a good way of getting medications into the bloodstream in controlled amounts. It peaks too fast to last very long, and it comes at the price of every health risk of smoking in general, made worse by the lack of filters and the different smoking technique. It's a GREAT way of getting high, and every time I hear someone talking about 'smoking better controls my dose' I know what they're REALLY saying is 'smoking lets me get as high as I want'. What pot advocates aren't realizing is that this is transparent to everyone but them.

I can't agree with this. Smoking allows the individual to control the dosage because it's so immediate and each hit is a relatively small dose. It also avoids the issue with throwing up the medication and then having to decide whether to take another pill or not. No reason to assume that the medical user only wants to get high when they say they prefer smoking.

As far as the health risks of smoking go, that's a valid point. But given that filters for pot smoking are available (water pipes are quite popular), and given the health risks that go along with other prescription pain killers, I don't find that argument persuasive.

From a philosophical standpoint, I don't advocate drug use because I respect the human mind, and I believe that drugs enslave it. What people are asking for here is the freedom to put on their own shackles. I grew up on a commune in kentucky. I'm a child of the 60's. I've had all the smoke I'll ever need, and most of it just drifted by for the taking. I've seen how people dream big dreams, and lose the force of will to put them into place. That's part of what subverted the hippie movement. Why wake up and act when the dreams are so damn nice? I like to dream big and make my dreams happen. I like to be free, and especially free in my mind. In the name of taking off one set of shackles, people put on another. The 'freedom' to do drugs is a joke. It's nothing more than the freedom to be a slave. If you can't get through the day without drugs, you can rant and rave all you want about the man and the government and the taking back your freedom, but you're a slave, and your freedom is a joke.

A

What about people who enjoy an occasional cocktail before dinner, a glass of wine with dinner, or a glass of beer with friends. Do you consider them slaves to alcohol? What about coffee drinkers? Are they slaves to their habit? It seems to me that there can be a great deal of difference between a moderate user and an addict. Of course, some drugs are far more likely to create an addict than others. My understanding is that alcohol, caffeine and nicotene are some of the most addictive drugs around while MJ is one of the least.

 

[CORed]

I have no idea why but the ingested high and the smoked high (and the vape high) are all different. If someone could make you a pill that work make you "smoking high" I would be impressed.

I didn't notice a lot of difference between the high from eating and the high from smoking (I've never used a vaporizer). I've only eaten pot a few times, because it takes a lot more to get high when you eat it, but I remember the onset was quite different. About half an hour after eating it, i would suddenly realize, holy crap I'm high. when you smoke it, the effect is immediate.

 

[CORed]

Pretty weak arguments. There are plenty of methods for pain management other than MJ. I really have no sympathy for people that need the high any more than a smoker that needs another cigarette or an alcoholic that needs another drink. It was a choice they made to go down that road.

Let's quit kidding ourselves. A large portion of people that favor medical marijuana, don't favor it for medical reasons.

I'm fine with legalization and regulation just like alcohol. I just want people to be honest about their motives.

I favor medical marijuana both for whatever medical benefit it may provide (and I agree that the advocates of medical marijuana often greatly exaggerate the benefits), and I hope that it will help pave the way for full legalization. As it stands in California and Colorado, there are certainly a lot of people getting "medical marijuana" prescriptions that don't really need it for medical purposes. IMO, that is a good thing. I hope that once people see that legal usage isn't going to cause civilization to collapse, that common sense will prevail and full legalization will follow. Perhaps this is a pipe dream. I know in my college years I was sure that legalization would happen within a few years. Boy was I wrong.

 

[CORed]

For the record I don't think of MJ as being effective against pain. On that front it's pretty much a bust IMHO.

I do think it's great for making you forget that you are hurting though. It's also great for dealing with appetite and nausea problems.

I also never found it to be much good as a pain killer, but maybe for some people or for some types of pain, it works.

As a matter of fact, for me, and some other people I know, overindulgence can cause a pretty nasty headache.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I didn't notice a lot of difference between the high from eating and the high from smoking (I've never used a vaporizer). I've only eaten pot a few times, because it takes a lot more to get high when you eat it, but I remember the onset was quite different. About half an hour after eating it, i would suddenly realize, holy crap I'm high. when you smoke it, the effect is immediate.

I think the high has a different feel to it. I'd love to see some research in this area.... but as we all know it's almost impossible to legally do this research.

 

[SRW]

Do not try this at home, things can go very wrong.

 

[Uncayimmy]

By the way, this shows the lie inherent in medical marijuana legalization. It's been available for a long time, just not in a formulation designed to hit you all at once (inhaled vapors hit almost as fast as IV injections), and the faster it hits, the more it'll produce a high, and the faster it'll be gone. Cancer patients who wanted to use the natural weed ate it in brownies. Gives a nice slow onset, and a long duration, which is what you need if you're ACTUALLY in pain, and not trying to get high.

As a sufferer of chronic pain, I'm going to have to disagree with this premise when it comes to pain (not specifically nausea). My experience with pain has given me a few insights about myself personally. I can't really speak for others, but perhaps other sufferers will chime in. I have stenosis in my cervical vertebrae. The pain at times has been unbearable.

First, I try to avoid painkillers if possible. They affect the speed at which I think, which I find disturbing. I also make more mistakes (interestingly, I make a lot of mistakes with fevers over 100). When I'm ready for a painkiller, I want it to act quickly. What I find is that I need to "get ahead" of the pain so to speak. The sooner I can get ahead of it, the quicker I can manage it on my own. It's like it bubbles over, and I need help to recover. The shots I've gotten in the ER work wonders!

That leads me to my second observation, which is related. A very big factor in pain is the associated anxiety and stress. My experience with Vicodin and Percocet is not so much that they relieve the pain but that they make it so I care less about the pain. It's almost like "objectively" I recognize the pain sensations, but there's a sense of detachment with the painkillers.

Knowing that relief is not too far away in the form of a painkiller allows me to better manage my stress levels, which in turn lets me better manage the pain myself. However, I have to be careful not to let it get too bad because if I do, the painkiller itself doesn't work as well, and it takes longer.

I've never tried pot for pain, but I have used it before years ago. I found the effect was almost instantaneous whereas a painkiller seems to take 30 minutes to an hour. If you think a special, hour-long episode of "Full House" takes forever, try suffering from bad nerve pain for an hour. I would greatly appreciate an instant hit from painkillers.

In fact, I would probably use painkillers less if the effect was as fast as taking a hit from a joint. Why? Because I would be more willing to "stick it out" and try to overcome the pain myself. Right now I have to make a judgment call about how bad I think the episode might be. I'm sure I've pulled the trigger too soon just to play it safe. Those who don't suffer chronic pain probably don't understand that many of use tolerate far more pain than ordinary people do, so when I say "too soon" I mean by my standards, not the standards most people have.

I also recall the effects of pot being relatively short lived. A Percocet or Vicodin will affect me for six to eight hours, which is way too long. I'd be much happier with a short lived effect since usually an hour or two after the meds have kicked in, the pain level is reduced in large part (I think) because I've "gotten ahead of it" and have reduced my anxiety level.

One of my frustrations is that most of the doctors I've encountered have never suffered through chronic pain. Some might have had severe pain, but many haven't had that either. I think patients have a very different perspective on things, and I freely acknowledge that I may be in the minority.

 

[luchog]

Sorry I don't have a link, but I read it online, so it ought to be out there somewhere...

The study was Canadian, and has been posted to this forum repeatedly in the past.

 

[luchog]

By the way, this shows the lie inherent in medical marijuana legalization. It's been available for a long time, just not in a formulation designed to hit you all at once (inhaled vapors hit almost as fast as IV injections), and the faster it hits, the more it'll produce a high, and the faster it'll be gone. Cancer patients who wanted to use the natural weed ate it in brownies. Gives a nice slow onset, and a long duration, which is what you need if you're ACTUALLY in pain, and not trying to get high.

This is rather misleading. Smoking is actually the preferred method of ingestion for cancer and AIDS patients, at least for the initial dose. For starters, one of the biggest problems with oral anti-nausea medication is the difficulty of keeping it down long enough to be absorbed. Smoking provides at least initial relief, making oral ingestion easier. It's also much easier to titrate the dosage while smoking, due to the rapid onset. One of the biggest complaints about dronabinol and other oral THC extracts is the difficulty of tritrating the dosage. Combined with the fact that, despite your claims, the high was often equivalent to, or more pronounced than, that achieved by smoking. Furthermore, the anxiety/paranoia side effects were typically more commonly encountered through THC extract products, due to the lack of the anti-anxiety properties of CBD present in the "crude" drug. More recent forumlations are including CBD along with the THC to mitigate the anxiety side effects.

 

[skyhand]

A couple of weeks ago I got qualified for medical use for multiple sclerosis. It will take several weeks before I will get a card and access to any marijuana. I live in Montana and the state has been overwhelmed with applications since the new administration relaxed its position on possession for medical use. I'm not sure that it will help anything, but will give it a try.

Having a chronic illness you tend to pay less attention to the evidence of effectiveness. I really don't think there is any solid evidence. With marijuana the side effects are a least well know. Getting high might be the only real effect. This might be the only thing that helps. You sometimes just want a vacation from being you.

If the effects are only the placebo effect, I can make my own homeopathic remedy. With the first batch I could make enough for the rest of my life and for everyone in the state. Being a provider is becoming a big business here and I could jump into some of the action.

 

[Trakar]

Didn't know that this happens to absolutely everyone who begins using cannabis. Thanks for stating it like it's a fact without exception.

I do agree that the effects are different when smoking and when vaporizing, but it feels like a different high instead of like it's not giving the 'full effect'. Vaporizers seem to produce more of a head high for me. I don't have trouble getting up off the couch afterward. I guess this means that vaporizers suck.

...technically,...they blow!