New Study documents the brain damage caused by marijuana

[cosmicaug]

Based on your sentiment, you agree that the majority of these deaths are rival gangs. Do you honestly think that these gangs will disperse upon the decriminalization or legalization of drugs?

They seem to be fighting over resources and protecting and procuring said resources are their reason for being. I know this is a gross oversimplification but it is the part which is relevant for this discussion. What do you suppose will happen if you take away resources?

 

[Marcus]

Pedantic eeek! Heroine is a female hero. Heroin is the drug. I don't think there's a British spelling of heroin with an 'e' but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know, you know how fond they are of superfluous letters.

 

[Marcus]

It's been used by millions of people for hundreds (probably thousands) of years, surely any significant health effects would be apparent by now if it was actually dangerous?

Pot was made illegal not because of any known effect on health, but as a way to harass Mexicans and blacks, at least in the USA.

Yep. It all started as a way to demonize illegal Mexican immigrants. There was panic in some circles because of the jobs they were taking. Weed was chosen as the most promising target (those dastardly wetbacks smoking their devils weed!). That started the ball rolling, without this pr campaign the outcome could have been very different.

 

[Dancing David]

That's a good point. There's a model of addiction which involves trying to get rats to self administer drugs. I have no idea how much research effort has been spent in looking for this in cannabis but it's probably a lot.

Surprisingly there is very little studies marijuana, compared to the other psychoactives. It not 'hot and sexy' enough.

 

[Dancing David]

What is it that makes marijuana a target?

It was smoked mainly by african americans when the 1927 law was passed?

 

[WildCat]

What is it that makes marijuana a target?

Mexicans and blacks liked to use it, and unsavory whites like jazz musicians.

It really is that simple. In the nearly 100 years since they've been searchoing, to no avail, to find actual reasons to keep it illegal so they resort to just making stuff up about it or nonsensical stuff like the idiotic egg in a frying pan ad. Or stress the legal consequences, which is a circular argument.

 

[WildCat]

Still, I have never read of any stories of people growing coca anywhere in the US so I assume it just isn't done (It might be because coca is just nut that interesting to American potential drug users).

I don't think the climate exists in the US. It has to be grown above a certain altitude, but is also has to be warm. This means high-altitude tropics. Perhaps it could be grown in parts of Hawaii.

 

[Dcdrac]

If you ever seen Reefer Madness that old anto pot propaganda film its hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azf320JDdqU

 

[WildCat]

Yep. It all started as a way to demonize illegal Mexican immigrants. There was panic in some circles because of the jobs they were taking. Weed was chosen as the most promising target (those dastardly wetbacks smoking their devils weed!). That started the ball rolling, without this pr campaign the outcome could have been very different.

And combine that with the temperance movement at the time, alcohol was made illegal about the same time. But that didn't last long, because lots of whites like to use alcohol.

 

[cosmicaug]

I guess you could add methamphetamine but I don't think that would be from his time. As for heroin, outside the US some still call it medicine (it is considered to be very good for pain management for some specific applications in the U.K., IIRC).

 

[cosmicaug]

I don't think the climate exists in the US. It has to be grown above a certain altitude, but is also has to be warm. This means high-altitude tropics. Perhaps it could be grown in parts of Hawaii.

Kind of like coffee, then? got it!

 

[catsmate]

With all due respect I find nothing here that would compel me either way regarding pot. Let's grant all of your premises and go back to my question that was left unanswered as far as I can tell.

Look, if the relative risks are low then I really, really, really, really (did I say "really) don't give a ****.

Let me be clear in case anyone isn't getting the drift, I think those who care about the dangers of marijuana use are silly. Seriously silly. They don't know what the relative risks are and won't take the time to find out.

So yes, marijuana can destroy relationships and cost you your job. But SO CAN FACEBOOK.

When you figure out the relative risks get back to me and we can have a serious discussion. And please, I would be happy to have that discussion. As it is I don't think any discussion has any serious merit.

I posted a link to a study of the relative risks, from The Lancet, previously in this thread. Perhaps that would be a reasonable starting point?

 

[RandFan]

I posted a link to a study of the relative risks, from The Lancet, previously in this thread. Perhaps that would be a reasonable starting point?

Absolutely. Could you post it again?

 

[Aepervius]

Given that this thread has already diverged from just marijuana perhaps this graphic from Nutt's study in The Lancet will help. It's a summary of a detailed evaluation of the risks of various mind altering substances.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_16272507e80db55cb2.jpg[/qimg]
You'll note that alcohol shows a higher aggregate risk than heroin, methamphetamine or cocaine. Perhaps it's time for a more rational approach to the status of all narcotics in society?

For randfan. I think it was this one.

 

[RandFan]

For randfan. I think it was this one.

Helpful though it doesn't specifically provide a means to compare marijuana risks to non-drug related risks. Yes, how dangerous cannabis is to other drugs is helpful but not what I was getting at.

 

[marplots]

Mexicans and blacks liked to use it, and unsavory whites like jazz musicians.

It really is that simple. In the nearly 100 years since they've been searchoing, to no avail, to find actual reasons to keep it illegal so they resort to just making stuff up about it or nonsensical stuff like the idiotic egg in a frying pan ad. Or stress the legal consequences, which is a circular argument.

But it's also illegal in Mexico.
Maybe your argument could work if you said the poor like to use it.

And the "they" in that is us, right? I mean the voters -- you know, the same category that got alcohol prohibition first instituted and then removed?

 

[Lithrael]

But it's also illegal in Mexico.

I'm under the impression that a lot of other countries made it illegal at least in part to grease the wheels of getting along with the USA.

And the "they" in that is us, right? I mean the voters -- you know, the same category that got alcohol prohibition first instituted and then removed?

The problem at this point is that "hard on drugs" is such a sunk cost, and the number of people who actually care more than a shrug about the issue is so small, that it's no longer comparable to prohibition in that way. Alcohol was extreeeeeeemely popular. The situations, back then, where advocating for bringing back alcohol was political suicide were as rare as the situations, now, where advocating for bringing back pot isn't political suicide.

 

[marplots]

The problem at this point is that "hard on drugs" is such a sunk cost, and the number of people who actually care more than a shrug about the issue is so small, that it's no longer comparable to prohibition in that way. Alcohol was extreeeeeeemely popular. The situations, back then, where advocating for bringing back alcohol was political suicide were as rare as the situations, now, where advocating for bringing back pot isn't political suicide.

I think you've put your finger on it. And it's fascinating to see the current political pushes toward legalization, both for medical use and in ways comparable to alcohol.

The best play for the marijuana decriminalization side of the issue is to frame it as being about personal freedom, coupled with harm reduction and the incarceration rate (even though trafficking and distribution retain their status).

I think Washington State has the best chance at going "full legalization" with a ballot measure this election cycle, but I haven't seen poll numbers on it.

 

[RandFan]

I'm under the impression that a lot of other countries made it illegal at least in part to grease the wheels of getting along with the USA.

I think that is the most likely answer.

 

[pgwenthold]

Call out the experts.

[qimg]http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2009/10/28/129012092527170287.jpg[/qimg]

From the same source...

"A lot of cats put down grass, man, because they say things, like, it makes you lose your memory, you know. I just want to say that....um...I forgot my words, man!" PSA by Stanley Roachclip