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New Section Under General Academics?

question,what kind of question is like this

  • donkeys,of course

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • elephant's , of course

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • i don't dare to vote for this poll

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
DialecticMaterialist said:
History can go under science or politics.

No it can't. When one refers to "Science" one is normally talking about "Natural Science" as oppsosed to "the Humanities". This is very much the case on this board. History is not a part of Natural Science.

Politics? How is for instance debating the occurence of a certain event or phenomenon in history, politics? For instance, a discussion on the reasons for the spread of the bubonic plague in medieval Europe could hardly be categorized as politics.

Linguistics, philosophy or science.

Although I agree that Semantics is a subset of Philosophy, Linguistics certainly is not. Nor is the study and practice of languages a part of Natural Science.

I mean we may as well add, math,ethics,biblical scholarship, etc. If we go that route.

Aw, come on. By your reasoning it would make more sense to bundle L&A, P&CE and R&P under a general forum called "Humanities". Nice and neat. Only two rather general subsections to General Academics. Perhaps only one? "Natural Science and the Humanities"?

Seriously, "Ethics" and "Biblical Scholarship" are clear subsets of Religion & Philosophy, so no points on those. I will give you "Math" - but I don't think your argument is very strong. We could indeed go that route - I am certain that there are posters who very would be interested in such a forum.
 
Great idea, Renata!

(I'm rooting for you at Chess, uh? BEHAVE!)

Instead of opening new forums, why not expand the nearly-empty existing ones?

I like Banter the way it is, btw.
 
Luciana Nery said:
Great idea, Renata!

(I'm rooting for you at Chess, uh? BEHAVE!)

Instead of opening new forums, why not expand the nearly-empty existing ones?

I like Banter the way it is, btw.

[offtopic] so post in my chess thread already! :) [/offtopic]
 
History as a Science

No it can't. When one refers to "Science" one is normally talking about "Natural Science" as oppsosed to "the Humanities". This is very much the case on this board. History is not a part of Natural Science.

History can be considered and treated as a science. In fact many so-called "Sciences" are historical in nature, paleontology, geology, cosmology.

Politics? How is for instance debating the occurence of a certain event or phenomenon in history, politics? For instance, a discussion on the reasons for the spread of the bubonic plague in medieval Europe could hardly be categorized as politics.

Debating about whether the American revolution was a good or bad thing.




Although I agree that Semantics is a subset of Philosophy, Linguistics certainly is not. Nor is the study and practice of languages a part of Natural Science.

I would say it is a science.

Also I don't think it's the "Natural Science" forum but the Science forum.




Aw, come on. By your reasoning it would make more sense to bundle L&A, P&CE and R&P under a general forum called "Humanities".


Perhaps, there is a bit of approximation involved. However I see the devision as relevant as those are three big seperate things people discuss.

"Natural Science and the Humanities"?

Practical considerations, people will often times talk about philosophy, science, politics and literature as different subjects. You can put them together but things may get clustered. However with Linguistics and History, they fit nicely into other categories and are not really discussed to recieve a category on their own.


We could lump all discussions together under the heading "Board Forum" as well, but that'd be very pointless. The fact is the above 4 each have unique methods with them, Art,Science, Philosophy and Political discussions each go by different standards. History and Linguistics does not really bring a unique set of methods with it but can be easily included under the general four. (Science)

Seriously, "Ethics" and "Biblical Scholarship" are clear subsets of Religion & Philosophy, so no points on those.


Biblical scholarship is a religion? I more thought of it as literature or a study of history. You know that Biblical scholarship sia secular endeavor right?

I will give you "Math" - but I don't think your argument is very strong. We could indeed go that route - I am certain that there are posters who very would be interested in such a forum.

I think the Linguistics and Semantics forum would be fruitless. I mean what would we debate, what the "true" definition of a word is? It's not a large enough topic to merit its own forum.

History may be popular but it fits neatly into the science section, so likewise I don't think it needs its own forum.

I think a lot of this, especially the Linguistics aspect is more your own personal interest, not really widely shared and I don't see that as sufficient reason to make an entire forum on it.
 
Chris Rock

And yes we *can* make new forums for those two subjects.

But as Chris Rock said, we can do a lot of things, but that doesn't mean we should.

I *can* drive a car with my feet, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
 
Re: History as a Science

DialecticMaterialist said:
History can be considered and treated as a science. In fact many so-called "Sciences" are historical in nature, paleontology, geology, cosmology.

Yes, those "Sciences" are historical in nature. The study of History as such is notwithstanding undoubtedly a subset of the Humanities.

Debating about whether the American revolution was a good or bad thing.

If it has implications on today's policies, that would be a political discussion, yes. Otherwise it is pure History, not a discussion on politics.

I would say it is a science.

Yes, but not a "natural science".

Also I don't think it's the "Natural Science" forum but the Science forum.

It doesn't really matter what you think. It is a fact that it currently is treated as the "Natural Science" forum.

Perhaps, there is a bit of approximation involved. However I see the devision as relevant as those are three big seperate things people discuss.

Well History is in fact also a "big separate thing" that people discuss - but it doesn't really fit into to any of those categories.

Practical considerations, people will often times talk about philosophy, science, politics and literature as different subjects. You can put them together but things may get clustered. However with Linguistics and History, they fit nicely into other categories and are not really discussed to recieve a category on their own.

No they do not "fit nicely into other categories". Both History and Linguistics are clear separate subsets of the Humanites (as is evidenced by the fact that they are treated as such at most faculties).

We could lump all discussions together under the heading "Board Forum" as well, but that'd be very pointless. The fact is the above 4 each have unique methods with them, Art,Science, Philosophy and Political discussions each go by different standards. History and Linguistics does not really bring a unique set of methods with it but can be easily included under the general four. (Science)

Why are you referring to the "general four" like they were academical standards? They are merely a construct of this forum.

Biblical scholarship is a religion? I more thought of it as literature or a study of history. You know that Biblical scholarship sia secular endeavor right?

No, Biblical scholarship is not a religion (?!?) - it is the study of religion. Sorry I didn't spell that out for you. :rolleyes:

I think the Linguistics and Semantics forum would be fruitless. I mean what would we debate, what the "true" definition of a word is? It's not a large enough topic to merit its own forum.

Debates like that go on every day in R&P.

History may be popular but it fits neatly into the science section, so likewise I don't think it needs its own forum.

Not as long as the Science section is reserved for Natural Science, which in fact seems to be judging from the debates that now take place in that forum.

I think a lot of this, especially the Linguistics aspect is more your own personal interest, not really widely shared and I don't see that as sufficient reason to make an entire forum on it.

Not widely shared? 25 % of the votes cast at this point in time (32) indicate otherwise.

The fact that you personally wouldn't participate in such a forum isn't reason alone.

And yes we *can* make new forums for those two subjects.

But as Chris Rock said, we can do a lot of things, but that doesn't mean we should.

I *can* drive a car with my feet, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Golly. I had no idea that Mr. Rock was such an authority on scholarly matters. Ok. That makes all the difference.

Seriously, we *can* also try to have discussions on History and/or Linguistics in the current categories. The subjects still do not fit in there as nicely as you contend.
 
renata said:
Maybe Arts & Literature forum can be expanded to include History?

If there is a strong opposition against new forums as such, I think this is a good idea.
 
Quick update (34 votes cast):

Linguistics and Semantics: 8
History: 16
No new sections: 16
 
Ok, so we now have 9 votes in total for Linguistics and Semantics (35 votes cast).

Just imagine the discussions (from Episode 12 of Monty Python's Flying Circus):

Foam at the mouth and fall over backwards. Is he foaming at the mouth to fall over backwards or falling over backwards to foam at the mouth. Tonight 'Spectrum' examines the whole question of frothing and falling, coughing and calling, screaming and bawling, walling and stalling, galling and mauling, palling and hauling, trawling and squalling and zalling. Zalling? Is there a word zalling? If there is what does it mean...if there isn't what does it mean? Perhaps both. Maybe neither. What do I mean by the word mean? What do I mean by the word word, what do I mean by what do I mean, what do I mean by do, and what do I do by mean? What do I do by do by do and what do I do by wasting your time like this? Goodnight.
 
CWL said:
Quick update (34 votes cast):

Linguistics and Semantics: 8
History: 16
No new sections: 16

You should have started this thread in the R&P forum. Here nobody cares about Semantics and Linguistics.

History is o.k. too. There are more possibilities for that section.
 
Q-Source said:


You should have started this thread in the R&P forum. Here nobody cares about Semantics and Linguistics.

History is o.k. too. There are more possibilities for that section.

You know what, I think you may be right. I shall ask the moderators to move this thread to R&P.
 
Yes, those "Sciences" are historical in nature. The study of History as such is notwithstanding undoubtedly a subset of the Humanities.

t's better treated as a science. Not an art.


If it has implications on today's policies, that would be a political discussion, yes. Otherwise it is pure History, not a discussion on politics.

History always(or usually) has implications on todays policies.


Yes, but not a "natural science".

So what? Psychology, cognitive science, and anthropology are not natural sciences either, does that mean they each get a section?


It doesn't really matter what you think.

What an open minded approach. ;)

It is a fact that it currently is treated as the "Natural Science" forum.

Is it? Not really.

Matters of IQ and male/female differences are not exactly "natural sciences"(a very vague and arbitrary distinction which I don't adhere to anyways)

but I found threads on those subjects in about 1 second.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19418

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19400

As well as MPD.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18540

Either your definition of natural science is so vague that it can include hitorical/psychological sciences, like history and athropology. Or any studies concerning aspects of human nature and historical events cannot be called natural science(there goes much biology,psychology etc.)

quote: Perhaps, there is a bit of approximation involved. However I see the devision as relevant as those are three big seperate things people discuss.

Well History is in fact also a "big separate thing" that people discuss - but it doesn't really fit into to any of those categories.

I don't really see many posts on it. Of course that may be "because there's no place to post about it." But that's conjecture, I could say that about anything.



No they do not "fit nicely into other categories". Both History and Linguistics are clear separate subsets of the Humanites (as is evidenced by the fact that they are treated as such at most faculties).

Well the faculties destinction in this matter is based more on tradition then a real reason to differentiate I'd say.

And IF faculties treat things differently, that doesn't follow that there 1) Is a solid distinction. 2) That the subjects cannot fit under other forums.

Faculties often times treat religion and philosophy differently. That doesn't mean they can't go together well though.


Why are you referring to the "general four" like they were academical standards? They are merely a construct of this forum.

All categories on any forums are mere constructs. Even your proposed ones. Thus that's not really a good refutation.

Secondly, I'm not reffering to the "General Four" because they are academic distinctions set by the state or universities but because they've already been established on the board.


No, Biblical scholarship is not a religion (?!?) - it is the study of religion. Sorry I didn't spell that out for you.

Well I guess then, I must speel out that's its not a study of religion but a study of the Bible.



Debates like that go on every day in R&P.

Where? Just looked. None there.



Not as long as the Science section is reserved for Natural Science, which in fact seems to be judging from the debates that now take place in that forum.

No they aren't. There's psychology in there too.



Not widely shared? 25 % of the votes cast at this point in time (32) indicate otherwise.

Actually it's more like 9.4 percent now.

The fact that you personally wouldn't participate in such a forum isn't reason alone.

Well then the fact that you'd personally want such a forum is not sufficient reason to make it.


Golly. I had no idea that Mr. Rock was such an authority on scholarly matters. Ok. That makes all the difference.

LOL. I was just crediting the guy with a clever saying, not making him an authority.

Seriously, we *can* also try to have discussions on History and/or Linguistics in the current categories. The subjects still do not fit in there as nicely as you contend.

I think they do. I think the only reason they would fail to fit is if a person didn't follow up what he/she said about history and linguistics with evidence, empirical/tested evidence like they do with science. In which case discussions about history and language will get nowhere. Because the subjects are not settled by rational discourse(philosophy) or research(science) but become mere conjecture. I'd rather such subjects be treated like serious matters rather then conjecture. These subjects are also different from politics and art, in that the two mentioned subjects consists of value judgements. History and linguistics unlike art and politics are not matters of value judgement though but matters of discovery, empirical discovery, which is a scientific endeavor(or one best left to scientific method anyways.)
 
DialecticMaterialist said:
t's better treated as a science. Not an art.
Science, yes. Natural science, no.

History always(or usually) has implications on todays policies.
Granted to a certain extent, but that does not mean that the discipline should be sorted under politics as you suggested.

So what? Psychology, cognitive science, and anthropology are not natural sciences either, does that mean they each get a section?
Perhaps they should?
What an open minded approach. ;)
:D Touché. That was a rather grumpy remark on my behalf. My apologies.

Is it? Not really.

Matters of IQ and male/female differences are not exactly "natural sciences"(a very vague and arbitrary distinction which I don't adhere to anyways)

but I found threads on those subjects in about 1 second.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19418

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19400

As well as MPD.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18540

Either your definition of natural science is so vague that it can include hitorical/psychological sciences, like history and athropology. Or any studies concerning aspects of human nature and historical events cannot be called natural science(there goes much biology,psychology etc.)

quote: Perhaps, there is a bit of approximation involved. However I see the devision as relevant as those are three big seperate things people discuss.

I don't really see many posts on it. Of course that may be "because there's no place to post about it." But that's conjecture, I could say that about anything.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Although I agree that the proposition "if you build it they will come" is pure conjecture, you must admit that the poll indicates that there is a certain interest for History on this board.

Well the faculties destinction in this matter is based more on tradition then a real reason to differentiate I'd say.

And IF faculties treat things differently, that doesn't follow that there 1) Is a solid distinction. 2) That the subjects cannot fit under other forums.

Faculties often times treat religion and philosophy differently. That doesn't mean they can't go together well though.

To a certain extent I can agree that faculties are based more on tradition than a real reason to diffrentiate. However, I would argue that these traditions just so happen to coincide with a rather logical diffrentiation, the oustet of which is the division of Natural Sciences and the Humanities. I do agree that it is difficult to draw the line, however as to certain disciples - Archeology being a prime example.

All categories on any forums are mere constructs. Even your proposed ones. Thus that's not really a good refutation.

Secondly, I'm not reffering to the "General Four" because they are academic distinctions set by the state or universities but because they've already been established on the board.
I see your point. I trust you see my point which was merely that the "general four" should not be regarded as written in stone.

Well I guess then, I must speel out that's its not a study of religion but a study of the Bible.
...which was a (rather important) religious text last time I checked.

Where? Just looked. None there.

Two examples of threads on the subject of defining terms (took me 1 sec aswell):

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=19335

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=19404

You will find similar discussions on the meaning of certain words as sidetracks in many of the threads in R&P.


No they aren't. There's psychology in there too.
What's your point? My point is that the forum in question is not the place for discussions on History and/or Linguistics.
Actually it's more like 9.4 percent now.

Look again. With 45 votes cast it is 22,22 %. You need to add option no. 1 and option no. 2, remember?

Well then the fact that you'd personally want such a forum is not sufficient reason to make it.
True. Then again, I never said it was.

LOL. I was just crediting the guy with a clever saying, not making him an authority.
:D I know. Just being cheeky.

I think they do. I think the only reason they would fail to fit is if a person didn't follow up what he/she said about history and linguistics with evidence, empirical/tested evidence like they do with science. In which case discussions about history and language will get nowhere. Because the subjects are not settled by rational discourse(philosophy) or research(science) but become mere conjecture. I'd rather such subjects be treated like serious matters rather then conjecture. These subjects are also different from politics and art, in that the two mentioned subjects consists of value judgements. History and linguistics unlike art and politics are not matters of value judgement though but matters of discovery, empirical discovery, which is a scientific endeavor(or one best left to scientific method anyways.) [/B]

Hmmm. Good points I must honestly confess.

Perhaps you could expand on that in one of the new forums? :p
 
Just checking to see whether the subject matter of this thread receives more attention in this forum... didn't do to well in Banter. :(
 
CWL said:
Just checking to see whether the subject matter of this thread receives more attention in this forum... didn't do to well in Banter. :(

[villager]

We fear change. Change is eeeeeevil.

[/villager]

edited to add: Never let me post when I'm on cold medication again. Someone just stop me.
 
Upchurch said:
edited to add: Never let me post when I'm on cold medication again. Someone just stop me.

Ain't nothin' gonna stop da funk. :cool:
 
Give me a "B"!

Give me a "U"!

Give me a "M"!

Give me a "P"!

Yay!
 

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