New Disclosures on Benghazi

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So you concede that your post was an ad hominem. Anything about the substance of the 60 minutes piece?

/What is "too funny" is media matters quoting FOX News as authoritative when it suits them.

// by the way, let us all recall the accusations that I was posting "right wing blogs" and lolz together.

This thread is indeed hilarious.

But as for your explosive new whistleblower...

He was talking to Fox News, but they found him too slimy and stopped talking to him altogether when he asked for money. If that's your idea of a reliable witness, then it explains much of why I still don't get BENGHAZI!!!11!!
 
This thread is indeed hilarious.

But as for your explosive new whistleblower...

He was talking to Fox News, but they found him too slimy and stopped talking to him altogether when he asked for money. If that's your idea of a reliable witness, then it explains much of why I still don't get BENGHAZI!!!11!!

I noticed that you didn't address any of the substance of the piece, nor do anything other than repeat your ad hominem, nor come up with any evidence that CBS or anyone else paid him for his statement. By the way, media matters managed to confirm everything that the witness said.

Thanks for your feigned interest in this "hilarious" thread, unabogie. Their names were Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.
 
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I noticed that you didn't address any of the substance of the piece, nor do anything other than repeat your ad hominem, nor come up with any evidence that CBS or anyone else paid him for his statement. By the way, media matters managed to confirm everything that the witness said.

Thanks for your feigned interest in this "hilarious" thread, unabogie. Their names were Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.

Wow, appeal to emotion noted. What a dumb conspiracy theory. At least the Truthers have an ethos.
 
Wow, appeal to emotion noted. What a dumb conspiracy theory. At least the Truthers have an ethos.

Not so hilarious now, is it, unabogie?

Any proof that 60 minutes paid the witness?

In addition, you may wish to take a look at my sig if you wish to be taken seriously.
 
Not so hilarious now, is it, unabogie?

Any proof that 60 minutes paid the witness?

In addition, you may wish to take a look at my sig if you wish to be taken seriously.

Who claimed he was paid? I proved he sought money. The rest of your post is just weak. This thread really belongs in CT.
 
Here is the link to the entire segment:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157981n

here is a very small sample of the transcript we were talking about last night:

...I'm not sure of the significance of what you quoted and it certainly doesn't appear to be anything new. When Yugang Zheng and Shuying Yang were killed in a terrorist attack several years ago what would have your reaction been if China had sent special forces to New York to defend their citizens?

These were US citizens stationed in another country. If they were astonished that help from outside of the country was going to take time to happen (if at all) then they should have paid more attention before they deployed.
 
Classic ad hominem. Well done.

Reciting logical fallacies that you don't properly understand is not actually supporting your case; rather it's making the case quite well that this should be moved to CT where it belongs.

In this case, Unabogie's point is not an ad hom, even though it is directed at the person. The credibility of any given witness is paramount when evaluating the statements of that witness and whether that witness is telling the truth as they know it, or... shall we say, "exaggerating" the facts a bit for sensationalism.

The fact that this given witness was attempting to get money out of at least one organization in exchange for telling his story is a very poor indicator for his credibility; the fact that the organization rejected him is another poor indicator; and the fact that the organization was FOX News is particularly damning, since you would expect right-wing darling FOX to be at the forefront of any Hillary smear campaign. That they wouldn't run with it (plus the prior two facts) indicates to me that they have no confidence in the witness' credibility; thus, neither do I.

Or you could just do some basic Googling and find where former Defense Secretary Robert Gates (under Bush and Obama) responds to the precise criticisms leveled by this witness in May 2013 and rather demolishes them:

Robert Gates said:
"And with respect to -- sending in special forces or a small group of people to try and provide help, based on everything I have read, people really didn't know what was going on in Benghazi contemporaneously," Gates added. "And to send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, I think, would have been very dangerous."
 
Is this still regarded as a legit scandal?

Only by the fringe true believers.

I think the answer would have been obvious had you bothered to watch the 60 Minutes piece.

Maybe if anyone could every actually explain what the scandal is.

In order to exploit what the Administration considered its twin victories over Al Qua'ida and the overthrow of Quadafi in Libya, the Administration embraced a smaller less invasive security strategy in Libya. As such, and despite 1. numerous requests from the American Embassy in Libya for additional security; 2. a history of explicit attacks and published threats against the Consulate; 3. offers from the US Military to provide assistance, the State Department refused to offer additional security, leaving the Consulate barely defended on 9/11/2012. In the last entry of the Ambassador's personal diary is written "never ending security risks."

At the same time, the head of security planning for the 9/11/2012 anniversary had not bothered to talk to the top Military Commander in the region, and as a consequence quick reaction forces and contingency forces were not in place (that person was PROMOTED to the head of the CIA).

On the night of the attack, the only forces that were mustered came from the CIA annex (who acted alone and without orders) and a small force from the Embassy in Tripoli (who paid for the plane using their own funds). The State Department made the decision not to send FEST while the attack was still going on and the ambassador was still missing.

Despite extensive foreknowledge of the attack, and actual knowledge that the attack had been perpetrated by Al Qua'ida affiliated militia groups in Benghazi, the Administration and State Department began spinning an obviously false tale that the attack had spontaneously arose out of a non-existent protest outside the consulate. This was so despite the fact that there was no demonstration outside the consulate, the people actually in Libya declared that it was a terrorist attack, and the US Government had told the Libyan Government that it was Al Qua'ida affiliated militia groups on 9/12. This lead to the farcical situation where the President of Libyan was lambasting the US Government for sticking to a story that he called preposterous, yet Obama was still telling the American people that obviously false story at least a week later.

Subsequently, the Administration and State Department have gone to extraordinary lengths to cover up the extent of their foreknowledge by refusing to make critical witnesses and documents available.

In other words, the Administration and the State Department didn't provide necessary security, they lied about the nature of the attack, compromised the subsequent criminal investigation and have intentionally stonewalled any real investigation.

Oh yeah, no one at all got punished and the "independent" ARB did not even bother to interview the head of the State Department.

There are of course a 1000 additional details that have been covered by me in this thread. Let me make it even simpler:

People Died and then the Government Lied.
 
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That was an awful lot of words just to say LIHOP, you know.

Yep. Barack Hussein and Hillary were sitting around drinking chianti Bordeaux from the skull of Patton, chuckling while U.S. citizens were murdered overseas. They were meeting to plan how they could use this inevitable attack (after all, they funded it with Whitewater profits) to their political advantage, and help move forward their plan to enslave every gun owner and Christian in America.

I'm pretty sure that is the time line from what I have read here.

Daredelvis
 
I didn't expect that anyone was expecting a serious response to my comprehensive post. Sneering sarcasm instead of critical thinking. Par for the course. Note the complete lack of response to the 60 minutes piece.

I've found that if one does not expect serious replies from the partisans on JREF, one will never be disappointed.

What a *********** joke.

Check back tomorrow for more disclosures on the Benghazi scandal.

Start a thread that deserves serious replies. You'll get 'em
 
That is not a response to either my post nor the 60 minutes piece.

Have you noticed my sig? Do you REALLY think this is the first time I have responded to a fallacious accusation of conspiracy?
Do you think that might indicate the possibility it is a conspiracy theory?

Any facts?
That "argument by YouTube" is a conspiracy nut staple?

Protip: Rather than insisting everyone else watch your video, you might have better results simply presenting your POV in your own words.
 
1. numerous requests from the American Embassy in Libya for additional security; 2. a history of explicit attacks and published threats against the Consulate; 3. offers from the US Military to provide assistance, the State Department refused to offer additional security, leaving the Consulate barely defended on 9/11/2012. In the last entry of the Ambassador's personal diary is written "never ending security risks."
1) Many embassies requested support. Not enough to go around. That in hindsight, DoS guessed wrong means - what?

2) Many countries had histories of "explicit attacks and published threats against the Consulate (Embassies)." That in hindsight, DoS guessed wrong means - what?

3) Other than armchair quarterbacking, do you have an actual point?

At the same time, the head of security planning for the 9/11/2012 anniversary had not bothered to talk to the top Military Commander in the region, and as a consequence quick reaction forces and contingency forces were not in place (that person was PROMOTED to the head of the CIA).
So? Is it your contention he was required to do this or that previous persons in this position regularly did this? Otherwise you are simply pointing to things - with 20/20 hindsight - and claiming conspiracy.

On the night of the attack, the only forces that were mustered came from the CIA annex (who acted alone and without orders) and a small force from the Embassy in Tripoli (who paid for the plane using their own funds). The State Department made the decision not to send FEST while the attack was still going on and the ambassador was still missing.
Yes. In the hours following the attack on the Consulate (the Embassy was safe), it was considered to risky to send forces into an unknown situation. It would not be the first time a diversion attack was launched simply to drawn a vulnerable planeload of Marines into target range. The DoS was forced to weigh the risk to Consualt staff vs. the risk to an entire CH-47 full of Marines. Remember Somalia? The corpse of a single pilot was drug before the media. Imagine a plane load? Or even worse, a few get taken prisoner - because you sent them into an unknown situation without proper planning and support?

Despite extensive foreknowledge of the attack,
Wrong.

and quote]actual knowledge that the attack had been perpetrated by Al Qua'ida affiliated militia groups in Benghazi,
Well after the fact and only after the CIA declassified it.

the Administration and State Department began spinning an obviously false tale that the attack had spontaneously arose out of a non-existent protest outside the consulate.
So there was no protest at the Consulate? Interesting claim. The mob came from...?

This was so despite the fact that there was no demonstration outside the consulate
The mob came from...?

the people actually in Libya declared that it was a terrorist attack, and the US Government had told the Libyan Government that it was Al Qua'ida affiliated militia groups on 9/12. This lead to the farcical situation where the President of Libyan was lambasting the US Government for sticking to a story that he called preposterous, yet Obama was still telling the American people that obviously false story at least a week later.
You seem to have overlooked the CIA asking the DoS not to reveal classified information.

In other words, the Administration and the State Department didn't provide necessary security, they lied about the nature of the attack, compromised the subsequent criminal investigation and have intentionally stonewalled any real investigation.
Amazing powers of 20/20 hindsight.

People Died and then the Government Lied.
So all the other times our embassies have been attacked and people died, you were just as outraged - right? :rolleyes:
 
What a conspiracy with 60 Minutes looks like.

Hee hee!

BTW, ten rant posts in a row followed by six more in a row - do you think that makes your point more or less rational?
 
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