New Disclosures on Benghazi

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Why do people feel the need to respond to every sentence individually?

I don't know 16.5, it is weird.

It is almost as if people do it to isolate the context.

Say big guy, you might have a point.

Anyhow, CIA reports to NSS. NSS's call.

I see where you are going, but it seems that there is still some intra-ageny rivalry.

Huh, I see where you are going

I wasn't finished.... between the FB...

I and

the CI...

A that needs to be

Fixed.

protip: No one, I mean no one, claims that the attacks were spontaneous. They were well planned attacks carried out by Al Qua'ida affiliated militia.
 
First, the 100 dead terrorists number was taken from a book, cited above. It appears to be the only estimate I've found. It never occurred to me that people would really care how many terrorist were killed given that it was less than all. You got a better figure, go for it!
Yes, the number is 4 dead and 10 injured.

So are you retracting that claim?

[ETA: You're not relying on this book even though it's not corroborated and conflicts with all other sources, are you?

"It appears to be the only estimate I've found." What the hell does that even mean? I've linked to credible sources that show that 4 people were killed and a total of 10 injured. Originally, there were reports of some Libyan deaths, but those were false reports that were corrected.]

Second, people deflect responsibility for lots of reasons short of treason,
So? Americans do not overtly lie to deflect responsibility for the deaths of agents of the U.S. in attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities without it being treason.

and there are different types of responsibility shrt of intentional treason.
No. If the Obama administration was responsible for the deaths, that would be treason. If they're lying for the purpose of protecting those who are responsible for the deaths, that would be treason.

Here they wanted to deflect responsibility because they were grossly incompetent, because their soft foot print theory was silly, and because they wanted to win an electon. An investigation is ongoing.
I see what you're doing. You're hoping you can get away with arm-waving some sort of general deflection of responsibility without it being actual responsibility for the deaths. That way it sounds horrific and scandalous without it being any real claim at all.

Claiming they overtly lied to cover up incompetence isn't the claim you made earlier. But even so, you've failed yet to show they "overtly lied" at all.

But, specifically, have you retracted the claim you made that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths?

You don't seem the least bit interested in defending that specific claim.

By he way, calling yourself a skeptic in a "politics" thread is hilarious, doubly so when one is fanatically partisan and endeavoring to disrupt the thread.
This personal attack does nothing whatsoever to support your unsubstantiated claims.

[ETA: And you consider my repeated calls for you to either substantiate or retract claims you made in this thread to be disrupting the thread? Really?]

This thread is primarily to discuss facts in an ongoing investigation.
What rubbish.

You yourself made these claims in this thread. If the claims weren't off topic, then challenging you to support or retract these claims isn't off topic.

What part of the ongoing investigation revealed that 100 people were killed in Benghazi or that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths?
 
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Why do people feel the need to respond to every sentence individually?

You complain a lot when people challenge your unsubstantiated assertions.

By the way, the post I quote here goes against the spirit of this thread, doesn't it?
 
Why do people feel the need to respond to every sentence individually?

Why can't you actually answer my questions?

It is almost as if people do it to isolate the context.

Like you keep doing with the email from the CIA's General Counsel?

Anyhow, CIA reports to NSS. NSS's call.

And the NSS was fine with the mention of Ansar al-Sharia in the memo. Which you still keep ignoring.

protip: No one, I mean no one, claims that the attacks were spontaneous. They were well planned attacks carried out by Al Qua'ida affiliated militia.

What we know now is not relevant to what was known at the time the memo was being drafted. And what was known at the time was confused and muddled by, again, local witnesses who said the attackers claimed they were motivated by anger over the video, and by the fact that other militias besides Ansar al-Sharia were being fingered as the main perpetrators.

So, the idea that you're trying to push that the CIA, the NSS, and everyone else knew everything about what happened and deliberately removed information from the memo that they knew to be true in order to push a narrative that they knew to be untrue is completely false, 16.5.
 
Lolz, hicks testimony, the other whistleblowers' testimony, the release of 100 pages of emails, the admission that the the administration acted like idiots.

Which of these "new developments" led you to conclude that 100 people were killed in the attacks and that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths?

Remember, the "talking points" you like to go on about were released as a preliminary assessment with plenty of disclaimers saying that it wasn't a definitive assessment. Even if they were wrong on a some points, there isn't evidence of any overt lying (other than by the Republicans who mischaracterized the e-mails when they made bogus transcriptions of them and released them to the news media), and even if you had evidence of lying (which you don't), you've offered nothing to support the idea that they lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths.

By the way, to fit the 100 deaths claim back into this discussion, you used that to answer the question, why does this attack--unlike all the others--merit such scrutiny. Since the 100 deaths claim is incredible (it contradicts reliable sources, and would require the cooperation in a conspiracy of silence of all the major news media including those who were there in person), what are you left with for the answer to that question?
 
protip: No one, I mean no one, claims that the attacks were spontaneous. They were well planned attacks carried out by Al Qua'ida affiliated militia.
Hindsight is 20/20. What is relevant is what was known. You've not shown a single material fact to demonstrate an ethical breach or criminality or that the CIA and/or State department knew the facts (hence preliminary).

We take this serious. No one is excusing the CIA or the State Department. But when put in context with 8 years of lies and malfeasance that resulted in the death of thousands of Americans in many scandals, what's the point here?
 
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Given.

Given that this is a critical thought forum.

Given that after 2100 posts, there still is no 'scandal' proven.

Shouldn't this thread be declared a non-starter and laid to rest?

The horse's skeleton is begging for the courtesy of being laid to rest.
 
New Disclosure

Given.

Given that this is a critical thought forum.

Given that after 2100 posts, there still is no 'scandal' proven.

Shouldn't this thread be declared a non-starter and laid to rest?

The horse's skeleton is begging for the courtesy of being laid to rest.
The thread is an attempt to find something, anything, to weaken the Obama presidency. The GOP will not give up until they find something.

Besides, what else are they going to do with their time? Legislate?
 
The thread is an attempt to find something, anything, to weaken the Obama presidency. The GOP will not give up until they find something.

Besides, what else are they going to do with their time? Legislate?

Truly.

But within the confines of this forum - ;) - why does this thread remain painfully active. It's been proven Over and Over, for how many days now? He has nothing that critical though can't disprove.

And this is a critical thought forum.

Therefore.
 
Truly.

But within the confines of this forum - ;) - why does this thread remain painfully active. It's been proven Over and Over, for how many days now? He has nothing that critical though can't disprove.

And this is a critical thought forum.

Therefore.
I can't argue with your logic. It's a sound argument.
 
Well, this thread has been active today!

Lets see: complaining about the topic, overtly partisan claims and easily the finest examples of tu quoque fallacies in a thread that has seen more than their fair share!

13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News

Can a brother get a laughing dog? I assume that the independent skeptic who posted that did so ironically as an example of egregiously poor "critical thinking."
 
Well, this thread has been active today!

Lets see: complaining about the topic, overtly partisan claims and easily the finest examples of tu quoque fallacies in a thread that has seen more than their fair share!

13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News
In other words, you still have absolutely nothing. And context isn't "tu quoque" as much as you would like an easy out. No one is justifying anything based on the lies and malfeasance of Bush. No one excusing anything. No one is saying your arguments are wrong because "you did it too". Wrong is wrong. But put into context, whatever here that was wrong was not a serious breach of law or ethics.

Can a brother get a laughing dog?
Can we get some serious answers? Can we get material facts? Can we get something other than aspersions, rumor and accusations?
 
Well, this thread has been active today!

Lets see: complaining about the topic, overtly partisan claims and easily the finest examples of tu quoque fallacies in a thread that has seen more than their fair share!

13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News

Can a brother get a laughing dog? I assume that the independent skeptic who posted that did so ironically as an example of egregiously poor "critical thinking."

Another failure on your part to substantiate or retract the claims you made in this thread. To repeat them: you claimed 100 people were killed in the Benghazi attacks. You've admitted you relied on one source, but you lied claiming it was the only source you could find even though it's clear you read the news from major outlets.

You also claimed that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths. Your only response to this so far has been to try to pretend you made a different unsubstantiated claim (that the Obama administration overtly lied to cover up incompetence), or otherwise try to pretend you didn't make the claim that if true would mean someone in the Obama administration committed the crime of treason.

ETA: And we all know that your claim that my posts challenging you to substantiate or retract these claims are somehow outside the spirit of the thread is total bullcrap. You actually made these claims in this thread. My challenging them is exactly on topic.
 
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13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting "Allahu akbar" storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

Oh man, four died! That is horrible. That is as many as at Benghazi!

Except three of them were the terrorists.

So not only do we have the single finest example of a tu quoque fallacy we have ever seen, it is based on the seething contempt for reason that is so commonly seen in fanatical partisan writing.

Oh wait, sorry, not "tu quoque fallacy," "tu quoque context."
 
13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting "Allahu akbar" storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

Oh man, four died! That is horrible. That is as many as at Benghazi!

Except three of them were the terrorists.

So not only do we have the single finest example of a tu quoque fallacy we have ever seen, it is based on the seething contempt for reason that is so commonly seen in fanatical partisan writing.

Oh wait, sorry, not "tu quoque fallacy," "tu quoque context."

I like the "its ok because not as many people died" argument. It has a very special pleading feel to it.
 
13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News

September 12, 2006. Damascus, Syria. Four armed gunmen shouting "Allahu akbar" storm the U.S. Embassy using grenades, automatic weapons, a car bomb and a truck bomb. Four people are killed, 13 are wounded.

Oh man, four died! That is horrible. That is as many as at Benghazi!

Except three of them were the terrorists.

So not only do we have the single finest example of a tu quoque fallacy we have ever seen, it is based on the seething contempt for reason that is so commonly seen in fanatical partisan writing.

Oh wait, sorry, not "tu quoque fallacy," "tu quoque context."
There is no such thing as "tu quoque cotext".

And your post is just rhetorical. 13 attacks is very serious. And none of this compares to the thousands that died as a direct result of Bush's incompetence and lies. Katrina. Iraq. Etc., etc..

We've given you an opportunity to make a case and put it in context of history. All you have is rhetoric?

No material evidence. No ethical breach. No crime. No one has said that what happened at Benghazi was okay because of Bush's malfeasance. No one has tried to justify wrong doing. We have been honest and admitted to mistakes.

We are saying that given history and given this incident, this looks like a political witch hunt. Nothing more.
 
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I like the "its ok because not as many people died" argument. It has a very special pleading feel to it.

No it was the same number that died! 4! Where was teh outrage?

Sure, 3 of them were the terrorists.

And the suicide bomber? One human being died! Sure he blew himself up, but... Totally equivalent to benghazi! Except the whole lying part, right?

And Greece? A small chunk of concrete was slightly dislodged! Easily a benghazi!

And the bombs in Africa that killed 100s of innocent people! Oh wait, that does sound serious.... Looks at silly fanatical list... I don't see that... Hmmmm.

And the last time that an ambassador died.... Oh wait, don't see that...

And the last time a diplomatic facility was completely over run, I'll agree serious.... Not there either.

Oh wait, those happened under democrats.... Don't count, right?

Hmmm, talk about special pleading.

Protip: it is also missing the several other attacks during the Obama administration, including the other diplomat killed under Obama. Huh, not mentioned either? I'll be damned....
 
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