New Disclosures on Benghazi

[A'isha]

Really? How are our men DEAD? If there wasn't a siege, how did our people die?

Because they weren't at the embassy.

There was a team in Tripoli, 1 hour flight time to Benghazi. They didn't go.

A team, equipped and prepared, was dispatched from Tripoli almost immediately. They couldn't even get to the scene of the fighting until 5 AM.

Why? They were told to stand down.

As noted above, they were not told to stand down, but sent to Benghazi.

The RIGHT decision, would have been to send as many guys as they had available, immediately. Without delay.

That would have left the embassy unprotected.

When the attack started, we should have sent help.

Help was sent.

Unless it's all untrue, which I'd find hard to believe. SOCAFRICA even agreed that they said no go.

SOCAFRICA ordered that a four-man survey team on a noncombat mission and armed only with pistols was not to accompany the Libyan Air Force evacuation plane from Tripoli.

When our people were attacked, and being shot at, we should have sent teams IMMEDIATELY!! Without delay!!

We did. Five of them, from four separate countries.

 

[uke2se]

On a more serious note, why was the FAST team, normally located in Sicily, on a training mission in Croatia on September 11? That's normally the day of "maximum alertness" for foreign based installations.

Maybe there's a conspiracy.

 

[triforcharity]

Well, you see, all they had were their sidearms on them. And it was entirely inconceivable for them to take arms that they picked up in Tripoli. Entirely. Couldn't be conceived. They just couldn't go. They wouldn't have gotten there in time anyways.

There also couldn't have been any fast movers over Libya. Nope. Nearest jet was in northern Italy, and it didn't have the legs to get over Libya. It's entirely inconceivable for it to land at a US naval air base in Sicily and refuel. Yup. Entirely.

On a more serious note, why was the FAST team, normally located in Sicily, on a training mission in Croatia on September 11? That's normally the day of "maximum alertness" for foreign based installations.

Well, when you put it that way, it makes perfect sense!!

 

[RandFan]

No, just a lot of Monday quarterback ranting by armchair generals....

That's what I thought. Oh well. Political theater. I'm just curious how much time needs to go by before most people recognize it as just so much CT?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Maybe there's a conspiracy.

Or just plain incompetence. Maybe we should fix that sort of problem in the future.


Naah, let's just sweep it under the rug and pretend everything is fine!

 

[uke2se]

Or just plain incompetence. Maybe we should fix that sort of problem in the future.


Naah, let's just sweep it under the rug and pretend everything is fine!

I wonder if Obama sets the training schedule for the anti-terrorist team.

 

[Newtons Bit]

That's what I thought. Oh well. Political theater. I'm just curious how much time needs to go by before most people recognize it as just so much CT?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses a person, group or organization of having caused or covered up an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact.

Do we know who carried out the attack on Benghazi? Yes. It was an Islamist group.

Was there a cover up of the attack? Nope. We know it happened.

So. What we're left with is questions on why the government acted the way it did. This could have the effect of changing policy of the USA and provide a useful educational tool for new and existing officials.

Or we could just sweep it all under the rug because shining a light onto the actions of the government could be potentially embarrassing to them.

 

[triforcharity]

Because they weren't at the embassy.

So, they weren't at the embassy, that's why our men are dead?

A team, equipped and prepared, was dispatched from Tripoli almost immediately. They couldn't even get to the scene of the fighting until 5 AM.

Tripoli-Benghazi is not many hours away. It's 630 miles away by road, and a measly 400 miles as the crow flies. Even a slow helo can travel 120 mph. 4 hours. Not 6 plus hours.

As noted above, they were not told to stand down, but sent to Benghazi.

Much later than they should have.

That would have left the embassy unprotected.

Huh?

Help was sent.

Eventually.

SOCAFRICA ordered that a four-man survey team on a noncombat mission and armed only with pistols was not to accompany the Libyan Air Force evacuation plane from Tripoli.

If only someone there could have given them bigger guns....

We did. Five of them, from four separate countries.

Too late.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I wonder if Obama sets the training schedule for the anti-terrorist team.

Yea, I don't think that's his call. Asking the military to keep assets available when there is a high level of alert on embassies seems like something he could do in the future, however.

 

[A'isha]

Well, you see, all they had were their sidearms on them. And it was entirely inconceivable for them to take arms that they picked up in Tripoli. Entirely. Couldn't be conceived. They just couldn't go. They wouldn't have gotten there in time anyways.

Combat teams had already been dispatched, and the security situation around the embassy was still uncertain.

There also couldn't have been any fast movers over Libya. Nope. Nearest jet was in northern Italy, and it didn't have the legs to get over Libya.

Yes, which is exactly what Hicks was told.

It's entirely inconceivable for it to land at a US naval air base in Sicily and refuel. Yup. Entirely.

Which takes time and planning to set up, and according to the military Hicks was wrong about its usefulness in that situation.

On a more serious note, why was the FAST team, normally located in Sicily, on a training mission in Croatia on September 11? That's normally the day of "maximum alertness" for foreign based installations.

No FAST team was in Croatia. Two FAST teams from Spain were ordered to deploy to Benghazi and Tripoli sometime during the midnight to 2 AM call between the Secretary of Defense and military officials, and they arrived in Libya in the evening.

 

[triforcharity]

What REALLY pisses me off, above and beyond any other the actual events, is that Clinton et al. stood in front of cameras and told everyone that this whole incident was a protest that escalated. They told the families of the dead the same. In front of their coffins.

But yet, that's not even close to being true. Not even remotely.

 

[uke2se]

Yea, I don't think that's his call. Asking the military to keep assets available when there is a high level of alert on embassies seems like something he could do in the future, however.

Yep, that must be what causes a US senator congressman to say "if you link Watergate and Iran-Contra together and multiply it times maybe 10 or so, you’re going to get in the zone where Benghazi is"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...ng-benghazi-10-times-bigger-watergate-iran-c/

 

[uke2se]

What REALLY pisses me off, above and beyond any other the actual events, is that Clinton et al. stood in front of cameras and told everyone that this whole incident was a protest that escalated. They told the families of the dead the same. In front of their coffins.

But yet, that's not even close to being true. Not even remotely.

Hillary Clinton isn't omniscient. I'd guess she was going with the info she was given.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Yep, that must be what causes a US senator to say "if you link Watergate and Iran-Contra together and multiply it times maybe 10 or so, you’re going to get in the zone where Benghazi is"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...ng-benghazi-10-times-bigger-watergate-iran-c/

What argument are you trying to make here? That because one Senator thinks this is much bigger than it (probably) is that we should do/think... what?

 

[uke2se]

What argument are you trying to make here? That because one Senator thinks this is much bigger than it (probably) is that we should do/think... what?

I'm making the argument that this is political theater of a particularly loathsome kind. I'd say that's pretty obvious by now.

ETA: And I was mistaken. It was a congressman, although Senator Graham talked about this whole affair exploding, so it seems he thinks it's pretty big too. FOX are of course talking about conspiracies.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Hillary Clinton isn't omniscient. I'd guess she was going with the info she was given.

The info that her underlings (probably) ordered changed after seeing it?

 

[A'isha]

So, they weren't at the embassy, that's why our men are dead?

Yes.

Tripoli-Benghazi is not many hours away. It's 630 miles away by road, and a measly 400 miles as the crow flies. Even a slow helo can travel 120 mph. 4 hours. Not 6 plus hours.

They arrived at the Benghazi airport at about 1:30 AM, but it took them a number of hours to find transport into the city.

Much later than they should have.

They were sent almost as soon as the calls for help reached Tripoli.

Huh?

They were already at the embassy when the attack started.

Eventually.

No, it was sent right away.

Too late.

Yes, that's precisely what the Pentagon noted: help was sent right away, but there was no way it could arrive in time to save the four men.

 

[uke2se]

The info that her underlings (probably) ordered changed after seeing it?

Maybe they went with the info they were given as well? It was pretty unclear what had happened at the time.

 

[A'isha]

What REALLY pisses me off, above and beyond any other the actual events, is that Clinton et al. stood in front of cameras and told everyone that this whole incident was a protest that escalated. They told the families of the dead the same. In front of their coffins.

But yet, that's not even close to being true. Not even remotely.

Actually, it was fairly close to being true, or at least as described by local witnesses.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Maybe they went with the info they were given as well? It was pretty unclear what had happened at the time.

No, the CIA had a draft that was quite clear the attack was carried out by an Islamist group. That draft changed after the State Department reviewed it.

No reasonable explanation on why it was changed has been provided thus far.