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New Disclosures on Benghazi

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I wonder if someone could post the timeline for who knew what and when about posting the link to the CIA timeline? I'm not clear who redacted what and when (although I think ANTpogo might have made comments and then sent the post back to 16.5 who then asked the CIA to redo it).

I just want to get my talking points straight before I have to go on TV this Sunday.

:)
 
On a side note, does anyone in Washington (or in the press for that matter) ever actually believe the talking points? I've always taken that phrase for a polite way of saying "current lies and propaganda." I thought that was the rule.
 
On a side note, does anyone in Washington (or in the press for that matter) ever actually believe the talking points? I've always taken that phrase for a polite way of saying "current lies and propaganda." I thought that was the rule.

Other than being woefully out of date I believe all the data contained was accurate for the time. It is incomplete and foggy bottom appeared to play politics with it, but it still seemed to be accurate.
 
Other than being woefully out of date I believe all the data contained was accurate for the time. It is incomplete and foggy bottom appeared to play politics with it, but it still seemed to be accurate.

Yep, pretty much. The timeline of the memo's evolution really puts the nail in the coffin for the witch hunters.
 
I do, sincerely. The press has a far better track record of going after the truth than politicians do.
Not since 2008; fast & furious, solyndra, etc.

The only reason lefties think truth has a liberal bias is because that's all they are willing to see in media reporting since 1960+-10yrs.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/walter_cronkite_vietnam_and_th_1.html

Walter Cronkite’s remarks at the end of his February 27, 1968 evening news broadcast, four decades ago today, were a watershed in the history of the MSM’s credibility.

Unless you’re at least 55 years old, you probably don’t remember that CBS broadcast 45 years ago. The most trusted man in America had recently returned from Vietnam where he hosted a documentary on the VC/NVA TET (New Year) offensive that began January 31, 1968. Back in NYC, he closed his program that night by introducing “an analysis that must be speculative, personal, [and] subjective.” Among his comments were these:


Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities? I’m not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we. The referees of history may make it a draw.

It seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate.

But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could. (Emphases added)


Most evenings Cronkite ended his broadcasts with “And that’s the way it is.” That night he ended with a more somber, “This is Walter Cronkite. Good night.”

Today, it’s hard to fully appreciate the stature and status Cronkite held in 1968. He was the successor in fame to the demigod persona that had been Edward R. Murrow. When President Johnson heard of Cronkite’s comments, he was quoted as saying, “That’s it. If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost middle America.”
 
Yep, pretty much. The timeline of the memo's evolution really puts the nail in the coffin for the witch hunters.

The complaints by State are, I think, enough to be concerned about their playing politics with an issue of security, but I don't know if that's significant enough to do much of. Newton's Bit seemed to think that it might result is a firing or something, and I guess I could see that too.
 
Not since 2008; fast & furious, solyndra, etc.

The only reason lefties think truth has a liberal bias is because that's all they are willing to see in media reporting since 1960+-10yrs.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/walter_cronkite_vietnam_and_th_1.html

Did I say the press is infallible and will always be seekers of the truth? Or did I say the the press is more reliable than politicians? I stand by my statement, even if some members of the press screw the pooch. Not everyone on the left necessarily even agrees with me, but I have little faith in the pols to take action that doesn't benefit them or their party.
 
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The complaints by State are, I think, enough to be concerned about their playing politics with an issue of security, but I don't know if that's significant enough to do much of. Newton's Bit seemed to think that it might result is a firing or something, and I guess I could see that too.

I suppose it might come to that in order to placate the loons in congress, but looking at it objectively, there's simply no wrong doing there. Mistakes? Sure. Wrongdoing? Nope.

In an ideal world, the fallout of this mess would be the complete loss of the house for the GOP, as the American people abandon them after they tried to play politics with the death of four of their countrymen.
 
If you're referring to the email that said "Embassy Tripoli reports the group claimed responsibility on Facebook and Twitter and has called for an attack on Embassy Tripoli.", please note that those claims did not originate from Ansar al-Sharia's official channels. And in fact Ansar al-Sharia denied responsibilty as an organization - though they did leave open the possible involment of it's members and referred to the attack as "spontaneous popular uprising".

To better understand the significance of that you'd have to understand what kind of a militia group Ansar al-Sharia is. As a loose organization some of its members may do something on their own account without any central planning or even approval (bit like how Anonymous works).

Therefore the reports of Ansar al-Sharia trucks and members being present during the attack do indicate that its members were involved but do not prove that Ansar al-Sharia was responsible or that it was a planned attact by Ansar al-Sharia.

Besides, there were also other militia men and groups present, for example Martyrs of 17 February Brigade, and from early conflicting reports and accounts it was not clear who were actually involved in the attack as some militia men were attacking and some were defending the compound.

Apparently Martyrs of 17 February Brigade were defending the compound against the attackers, though Greg Hicks opionates that they were actually complicits in the attack.

So? "Surrounded" implies a siege. It was not. They were actually asked to be there by the hospital, as Benghazi's Al Jala Hospital had invited them to provide security. At the time Ansar al-Sharia was one of the many militia groups providing security in Benghazi including the hospital.

But because of their ideology they did not enjoy much popular support. Ten days after the attack, when the involment of Ansar al-Sharia members had become apparent, angry residents of Benghazi stormed its compounds and bases in a protest and drove Ansar al-Sharia out of the city among with some other militia groups.

Since February Ansar al-Sharia has been returning to Benghazi to provide security under the pretext of being nice with outreach programmes and all, but not everybody is buying it: Ansar al-Sharia returns to Benghazi.

At the time there were lots of conflicting reports and accounts of the events, the privilege of hindsight makes it possible to pick and choose the parts that seem to fit. Remember how according to early reports ambassador Stevens' body was dragged in the streets and violently assaulted by an angry mob? Yet in reality nothing such took place and actually people rescued him and took him to the hospital.

It is neccessary to have substantial vetted intelligence before providing a hypothesis or establising a conclusion. Conflicting information does not allow that and more is needed. That takes time. Hence the preliminary nature of information was emphasised early on.

http://townhall.com/columnists/dian...-us-used-jihadists-to-guard-benghazi-n1592113

The conservative thinking on the matter. Yeah, I know: Townhall! :mad:
 
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...

The thread seems to have taken a more conciliatory tone. I thank elbe for his even temperament and appreciate ANTPogo's apology.

For my part I will say that it is not conspiratorial nor is it untoward to ask questions about the incident
. I still believe that much of this politically motivated and it does strike me as conspiratorial. That's the last time I'll make that point.

I will also apologize to anyone for any offense. If anyone would like me to address a specific point or have a specific beef and they would personally like an apology please feel free to PM me.

Thanks.
 
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The complaints by State are, I think, enough to be concerned about their playing politics with an issue of security, but I don't know if that's significant enough to do much of. Newton's Bit seemed to think that it might result is a firing or something, and I guess I could see that too.

The evolution of the memo appears to be the result of a bureaucratic tussle between the State Department and the CIA, with each side keen to ensure that they weren't going to be the ones stuck with the blame in public for what happened, which ended up gutting the resulting final version of the memo of pretty much everything that could be interpreted as a failure on the part of either organization.

Which left the memo empty of pretty much everything except for vague generalities about the attacks.
 
The conservative thinking on the matter. Yeah, I know: Townhall! :mad:

Considering that Townhall is still pushing the "Ambassador Stevens was murdered and his dead body dragged through the streets of Benghazi" nonsense, that doesn't say a whole lot for "conservative thinking on the matter".
 
I suppose it might come to that in order to placate the loons in congress, but looking at it objectively, there's simply no wrong doing there. Mistakes? Sure. Wrongdoing? Nope.

My suspicions are that, at most, someone may get a slap on the wrist reassignment, but it's possible that evidence comes forward that some member of State overstepped their bounds and might have to fall on the sword.

In an ideal world, the fallout of this mess would be the complete loss of the house for the GOP, as the American people abandon them after they tried to play politics with the death of four of their countrymen.

Unfortunately for the right the Benghazi issue just doesn't seem to be getting any traction outside of their own base. It may sway a handful of people, but it seems many americans just think it's a dog and pony show.
 
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Moderated content removed.

The part where the memo doesn't include any lies, and certainly doesn't deserve to be the subject of repeated Congressional hearings.
 
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The evolution of the memo appears to be the result of a bureaucratic tussle between the State Department and the CIA, with each side keen to ensure that they weren't going to be the ones stuck with the blame in public for what happened, which ended up gutting the resulting final version of the memo of pretty much everything that could be interpreted as a failure on the part of either organization.

Which left the memo empty of pretty much everything except for vague generalities about the attacks.

It would just be nice if it weren't so expected of them.
 
And remember, applecorped, that all the revisions up to and including 6:52 PM on the 14th were made internally by the CIA before the interagency meeting.
 
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