New book on Scientology: Going Clear

[dudalb]

It's not that hard to understand really. Intelligent people are used to thinking in the abstract. Hubbard was selling a very abstract process. He was also sparking their imaginations with the possibilities that they could be very special indeed, just by using the power of their minds. It's the kind of thing science fiction stories were selling (remember, John W. Campbell was one of LRon's earliest promoters) at that time. Smart people can be fooled just as easily as dumb people, it's just a matter of which buttons need to be pushed.

I am well aware of that (I go off into rants about the absolute nonsense you often hear from people who are considered intellectuals) but the Hubbard nonsense seems to me to be exceptionally silly. There are some scams I can see why smart people can fall for them;the CO$ is not one of them.

 

[dudalb]

I think that the most interesting part for me, after reading the book, is that some of the scientology techniques probably work at some level. Imagine therapy sessions combined with a polygraph (all be it one with only one channel - monograph?). I think the effectiveness of scientology as a religion is that it takes these basic wins and uses them to attach credibility to further and further stretches - you don't do Xenu right off the bat, right? There is likely some deep entrainment, which when combined with the e-meter, makes people believe deeply in their past life experiences.

The second thing I came away with was that I am glad that scientology seems more concerned with making money than taking over the world. Enough new religions end up taking on the government or moving to terrorism. Scientology convinces people that their souls do not die. This could easily be applied to create something similar to Ibn Al Hassan's methods for indoctrination, which created some fanatical warriors.

I think as skeptics we miss the fact that scientologists don't just believe that they are immortal thetans--they experience past life events in auditing. Not that that is different than past life regression hypnotism or anything else, but the systematized, experiential basis of their faith. Just think of the crazy level of believe that Christians and Muslims have WITHOUT that experiential basis. Better yet, think of the people who believe in Sylvia Browne. You aren't going to argue someone out of their beliefs when those beliefs are based on experience.

I think that the best comment in the book is Wright's observation that Scientology is more a self-made map of Hubbard's mind than anything else.

I understand that until the details leaked out in a court case , it cost around 100'000 dollars to reach OTIII which is the level where you learned about Xenu and the DC 8 spaceships.

 

[dudalb]

But CoS has taken on the Govt (see Operation Snow White ) and eventually got a massive IRS concession unlike any other organisation.



and in Operation Freakout they faked terrorist material in order to try to frame a journalist or get ther committed to a prision or mental institution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

The forced abortions, the RPF, the "Hole"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_Project_Force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hole_(Scientology)

if only it were "just" about making money. It ruins lives.

THe RPF was a de facto prison system which physically detained people against their will, and it is a sad commentary on the way Religon can get away with murder in the US that the CO$ got away with that for so long.Not to mention that the book documents what amounts to kidnapping by the CO$ on several occasions.
If it were not for these and the other abusive tactics of the CO$,then, yeah, it would be a relatively benign scam,just another crazy UFO Cult. But level of lawbreaking the CO$ indulged in and got away with IMHO Makes it a dangerous criminal orginazation just like The Mafia,The Klan or Al Qaida for that matter.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

I happen to think that Scientology's processes, such as I have described above, are designed by L. Ron Hubbard for his followers to work out Hubbard's own psychological problems, using Hubbard's own useless methods. Consider the possibility that Hubbard suffered from Ekbom's Syndrome (delusional parasitosis), wherein a person imagines bugs under their skin. Combine that with a science fiction author's imagination, and you have OT3.

Early on, Hubbard borrowed a lot from Aleister Crowley's writings and stuff. a superficial (and often wrong) interpretation of Eastern religions and Christianity. but renamed them. The classic "you are born bad but we can cure you".
Body thetans are a kind of original sin.
Auditing a confessional
etc etc
Later he probably came to believe what he was inventing.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Later he probably came to believe what he was inventing.

Obviously it was working so well for his followers, how could it not be true? I mean, look at how much money we made . . . .

 

[StankApe]

I bet I could start a religion based on Selsen Blue!

Give the new inductees fake shampoo that is tingle free, tell them that if they do all of these sessions and meetings that eventually they will move up to level 5 .

$10,000 later you give em the real stuff " OMG IT'S TINGLING!! IT'S TINGLING!!!!"

 

[Chris L]

I am well aware of that (I go off into rants about the absolute nonsense you often hear from people who are considered intellectuals) but the Hubbard nonsense seems to me to be exceptionally silly. There are some scams I can see why smart people can fall for them;the CO$ is not one of them.

I see your point. In Hubbard's case, you might want to consider the original audience (golden age of science fiction fans) and the times they lived in. In general, the mind over matter magical thinking stuff was a staple of many a golden age story. There was also a sense in post-war America that science and technology could do anything. Hubbard, by claiming what he was doing was scientific (the subtitle of Dianetics is "the technology of the mind"), was tapping into that idea.
Later on, Hubbard just repackaged the whole thing to meet the times.

 

[arthwollipot]

I am well aware of that (I go off into rants about the absolute nonsense you often hear from people who are considered intellectuals) but the Hubbard nonsense seems to me to be exceptionally silly. There are some scams I can see why smart people can fall for them;the CO$ is not one of them.

Then you haven't fully grasped their recruitment methods. You think all that crazy stuff comes out at the beginning? No way.

It starts with a simple personality test. It's free! Here are some brochures, and we can sell you a book if you're really interested. Have a think about your results and come back to us if you have any concerns.

Oh, hi there! Good to see you again. You had questions? Of course, come on in and we can help you out. Yes, your personality test indicated a few minor psychological issues that we can help with. Having trouble at work? Well, it's all down to these engrams, and we can work with you to overcome those. Interested? Okay, we'll book you in for next week. See you then!

Ah, you're hear for your first audit! There's nothing at all to worry about, it's all perfectly safe. Have you read our book yet? It's all outlined in there. Okay, come on in. Hold these.

There, doesn't that feel better now that you've got all that off your chest? Great! Here are a couple more brochures. Oh, you want to buy our book now? Sure, no problem. Here you go. Give us a call when you've read it and let us know what you think.

Oh, hi! Yes, of course I remember you. How's the, you know? Oh, great. I'm so happy to know we could help you with that. You have more questions? Of course, come on in and I'll arrange for you to speak with one of our experts.

Hi, great to see you again. Come on in and I'll introduce you to Matt...

 

[Rrose Selavy]

There needs to be, or probably has been, a study into how otherwise very intelligent people get drawn into the CoS. It has to be admitted that early on, there might seem to be quite positive aspects eg social, as many religions would appear to provide even only superficially. One suggestion is that, once signed up, the concept of "past lives" is made a central aspect early on for the person , and they become the center of that , then by the time they get to Xenu, the concept is so ingrained , the idea just doesn't seem so far fetched.

But another point is this, by then they have invested so much money, emotion and time into getting to that stage , their self esteem becomes merged with the process, that when the crack start to show, they too often can't admit it and make the complete break. "I'm a smart guy/gal so I can't have been THAT stupid" .Their entire social and work universe has become the CoS and they risk disconnection from families still in (so psychological coercion as well)
So we have freezoners and "apostates" who leave the official church yet still revere Hubbard. Isn't it reassuring after 20, 30 or more years with CoS to tell yourself the fault lay not with yourself, not with Hubbard but with the official CoS.

Also on the whole, those leaving the Cos and into the public seem to be intelligent "nice" people, not bad people. Not the criminals or psychopaths that they will be painted as apostates by the CoS. There's a sense you want to say " how can you have been so stupid ?" but feel compassion, especially those who finally reject LRH as well.

As the saying goes , it takes religion to make good people do bad things.

 

[dudalb]

I have to wonder if a good part of the CO$'s current problems is due to the CO$'s "secret teachings"..The Xenu Saga in particular....being easily available on the Internet. I am betting that a lot of people apporached by the CO$ recruiters respond nowdays by jokes about Xenu.

 

[hgc]

I have to wonder if a good part of the CO$'s current problems is due to the CO$'s "secret teachings"..The Xenu Saga in particular....being easily available on the Internet. I am betting that a lot of people apporached by the CO$ recruiters respond nowdays by jokes about Xenu.

Yes, for broad Xenu awareness, you can thank the Internet. But you can especially thank South Park.

 

[dudalb]

Yes, for broad Xenu awareness, you can thank the Internet. But you can especially thank South Park.

I love South Park when it deals with The Super Adventure Club. But it is small potatoes compared to the Internet.
I really think that the Internet with its open and difficult to control format has proven to be Kryptonite to the Co$ which depends on secrety to operate. Which is why the Co$ went to extremes in the 90's to try to shut down any website or newsgroup that was critical of the CO$.

 

[StankApe]

I think L Ron was actually talking about SATAN but his lisp tripped up his secretary doing dictation and it stuck!

 

[ddt]

I love South Park when it deals with The Super Adventure Club.

Don't forget the Tom Cruise trapped in the closet episode!

But it is small potatoes compared to the Internet.
I really think that the Internet with its open and difficult to control format has proven to be Kryptonite to the Co$ which depends on secrety to operate. Which is why the Co$ went to extremes in the 90's to try to shut down any website or newsgroup that was critical of the CO$.

You're absolutely right that the internet was the essential nail in the coffin for Co$'s secrecy: the cat was out of the bag and could never be put back in again. However, I'd guess that the Southpark episodes lampooning Scientology gave it exposure to a wider audience. On the internet, you don't happen upon an anti-Co$ site, but you do happen on Matt & Trey lampooning them because, well, you watch Southpark every week.

 

[arthwollipot]

According to Bare-Faced Messiah, the Xenu story was the plot of a science-fiction movie that L Ron was trying to make before he died.

 

[hgc]

According to Bare-Faced Messiah, the Xenu story was the plot of a science-fiction movie that L Ron was trying to make before he died.

He must have delighted in the thought that his movie would be a hit, and of the pneumonia epidemic that would follow. Mankind's greatest friend indeed.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

Though there's a few interview clips around, this is new to me, a strangely fascinating clip like a deranged bullcrapping unfunny stand up comedian who just won't get to the punchline. Not dodgy, no, not dodgy at all.
I lasted to the end though my thetans are still clinging it might have been the seat.

 

[Kage]

Though there's a few interview clips around, this is new to me, a strangely fascinating clip like a deranged bullcrapping unfunny stand up comedian who just won't get to the punchline. Not dodgy, no, not dodgy at all.
I lasted to the end though my thetans are still clinging it might have been the seat.

Is there a sniper in the room?

 

[Rrose Selavy]

Is there a sniper in the room?

That's his Thetan leaving the body , even it can't stand it any longer.

 

[dudalb]

He must have delighted in the thought that his movie would be a hit, and of the pneumonia epidemic that would follow. Mankind's greatest friend indeed.

After all, the film of "Battlefield:Earth" was such a huge hit.

The theory that the Xenu saga was originally a Pulp Sci Fi story that Hubbard was unable to sell has been around pretty much since it became public in the Mid 80's. It certainly has all the marks of grade B Sci fi...