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Neat optical illusion

Here's an interesting site on color perception. (Requires Java)
Color perception link

Normal sighted people are always surprised that the "Normal" and "Deutan" views are virtually identical to me, except perhaps for some shifts in contrast.
 
Thanks... *reads* *chokes* Just 52 pages? S'arright, I'll take the sampling as reprsentative and hope for the best.
His final position was reasonable - that they look different, but measure the same, and that when he uses the word color he is referring to the former.

The problem was that it went about 20 pages of people saying "yes, they look different, but if you obscure the surrounding image you see they are the same" with Ian responding "you rule8 idiot, they are the same color, I don't need to bother to obscure anything, I can see they are the same. Everyone around me is stupid". Typical bluster.
 
:-D Seems a long way to go to reach "Well, they look different to me."

Did he have a take on illusions such as "Magic Zoomster" at the URL below -- do the segmented rings really rotate just because they seem to rotate? In this illusion there's no color perception to muddy the waters. I suspect this could even be built of solid materials. Would the perception of motion cause glued-down blocks of wood to shift?

Worse still, what if two people look at the screen together, one holding her head still while the other moves his head to and fro. She sees no rotation, he sees them whirling 'round, full o' fire. Whose reality prevails? Are the rings "really" moving or not? Is reality relative at this level? Has Will Rogers ever Metamind he didn't like? =O.o=

http://www.skytopia.com/project/illusion/illusion.html (about halfway down)
 
Meffy said:
Would the perception of motion cause glued-down blocks of wood to shift?
Motion is in the beholder, not in the "external object," just like with color.

Whose reality prevails?
The Metamind plays two different "realities" on the senses of the two beholders.

I have no idea. I'm just trying to grok Ian's metaphysic. If only I knew whether the senses are self or not-self.

~~ Paul
 
Golly.

Ohhhhh... kay. :-} Thank you.

P.S.: Now I wonder whether the Metamind plays knick-knacks on my knee. But that's enough digression, for which again I must apologize.
 
Hmph. The dragon illusion won't print for me. Just a small segment of it.

hmph.
 
http://www.weizmann.ac.il/home/masagi/MIB/mib.html

Motion induced blindness, read the intructions and see the basic affect link. Other .gifs I've seen of this had a center dot to fixate on in order to help focus attention.

Basically, focusing near the center of the picture and watching the motion without moving your eyes, will cause the stationary dots to disappear once and a while.

I find this one interesting, since it doesn't deal with using perspective, or doing a trick of interpreting colour based on shadow and the like. It appears that eventually your brain decides the stationary dots are usless info, and the covers them over.

Perhaps that is how we deal with new blindspots in the middle of our field of view. Just interpret over them, like it does with you permanent blindspots. Sure there is a paper on it somewhere since motion induced blindness brings up many hits on google.
 
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Both centre crosses in these objects are the same colour.
In honesty, JPG artifacting probably makes them slightly different, but I can at least say they are FAR similar than they appear in the image.
 

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Pretty good, reminds me of the reverse-color US flag projection trick. :-)

Here's the most jawdropping animated GIF I've ever seen.

http://vygotsky.sfasu.edu/Courses/psy133/rotate_circles.jpg

The amazing part is that it's not animated. Let your gaze wander around the pattern and see the "snakes" slowly turn while not moving at all. I can't resist seeing motion even while knowing perfectly well that it's static. Can you?

[edit] Here's the parent page: http://vygotsky.sfasu.edu/Courses/psy133/illusions.html

I drive a VW Beetle (the old kind) and tried various ways to paint this on my car to get the illusion from a few car lengths away but it's not transferring well to actual paint on a larger scale. It will be cool when I get it right, though.
 
To me the castle feels just like when I'm not sure whether I'm dreaming or awake (I mean when you move the mouse and it looks like color).

I keep having more realistic dreams all the time. I fear when I get old and senile, I will truly be unable to distinguish my waking hours from sleeping dreams.
 
Both centre crosses in these objects are the same colour.
In honesty, JPG artifacting probably makes them slightly different, but I can at least say they are FAR similar than they appear in the image.

Okay, that one's as good as the checkerboard illusion! I had to open the picture up in MS Paint to verify that they are the same.

It's true!
 
Here's an interesting site on color perception. (Requires Java)
Color perception link

Normal sighted people are always surprised that the "Normal" and "Deutan" views are virtually identical to me, except perhaps for some shifts in contrast.
It's nice to see those splatter images (the ones that normally test for colour-blindness) in single-channel colour, just so I can see what it is that others are seeing. I still can't pick it out once I go back to full colour, but I guess that's kind of the point.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Biophysics of Color and the Castle Illusion

Both centre crosses in these objects are the same colour.
In honesty, JPG artifacting probably makes them slightly different, but I can at least say they are FAR similar than they appear in the image.

That illusion is portrayed on a web site with other color illusions that I shared with Renee Rynn a while back to try and convince her that colors didn't have the properties she believed they had.

All optical illusions make the same point: don't trust your perceptions.

I published an article on color reproduction that was actually used in high school science classes. It seems like we get stuck on semantic aguments -- are we talking about what colors are in the world or how colors appear to observers?

I made the point in my article:

There really is no such physical thing as "color." Color is an illusion our minds create when our eyes pick up various combinations of wavelengths of light in various contexts (the optical illusions demonstrate this).

A good example is the color yellow. An object in nature can look yellow if it actually reflects one wavelength of light that we see as yellow.

However...

...an object in nature can reflect the wavelength of red AND the wavelength of green and NONE of the wavelengths of yellow, and we will still see yellow.

Therefore...

...the color seen as "yellow" is an illusion, since we will see yellow when there is no yellow light at all. Look closely through a magnifier at a yellow area of a video screen, and you will see no yellow at all -- only red and green areas.

The castle illusion also demonstrates this. Here's its biophysics:

Brightly lit scenes are picked up by the "cones" in our retinas. We have three types: red, green, and blue. If we stare unmoving at a scene, the various colors exhaust the particular cones that are picking up the colors and transmitting their signals to the brain. When the image changes, the un-exhausted cones dominate and the exhausted ones fail to register their assigned colors until they recover their sensitivity.

For example...

...in the castle photo the original blue sky is represented in the chroma isolated negative as yellow -- more specifically the red and green wavelengths from your computer monitor. By staring at the picture without moving the eyes, the red and green cones of your eyes become exhausted but the blue cones become more sensitive from being unstimulated. When the cursor moves over the picture, the B&W representation appears. Keep in mind that the B&W picture on your computer monitor is actually not quite B&W but rather the sum of red, green, and blue light specifically (no yellow light). Now the blue cones in your eyes see the gray sky, but having become extra sensitive from a few seconds of deprivation, send a strong blue signal to the brain. The red and green cones, desensitized, fail to pick up much of their colors. The result is the gray looks blue -- the opposite color of the first image.

So that we don't get lost in a semantic argument, may I suggest that we be specific about the difference between the colors in the physical world (wavelengths of light in combination), and the colors in our perception? It seems that would keep away the goofy Uninteresting Ian interpretations.
 
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The illusion works well for me but not at all for my wife for some reason.
 
[snip]The castle illusion also demonstrates this. Here's its biophysics:

Brightly lit scenes are picked up by the "cones" in our retinas. We have three types: red, green, and blue.
[snip]
If you had posted something wildly inaccurate, I'd have let this go. But as it is, your post was very good, so I have to correct you on this.

Color Vision researchers (I count at least 3 among my friends) absolutely loathe it when people refer to the cones as "red, green, and blue". This chart has them labeled L, M, and S (for long, medium, and short), but even that is misleading, considering the overlap--especially between the L and M pigments. The purists in our department refer to them as the alpha, beta, and gamma photopigments, which does not tempt one to think of them as "absorbing light of X color".

Note that the "red" cones are maximally sensitive to a slightly greenish yellow, but respond to light along the entire continuum of the visual spectrum. The relative combinations of the bleaching photopigments are what are interpreted (through the opponent-process system) as color, as you say.

Oh...and it is not our "minds" which create the illusion of color. But that debate will have to wait...
 
It takes a great deal of effort to understand Ian, but I find it quite worth it.

I have been out of the forum for a while... but this is outrageous. Difficult to understand????? in which world? His thinking is transparent, and very obvious. Of course I would not take this out of context, but reading your last posts seems that you agree with him?? so... there are immaterial souls that survive the body?

Please tell me that you just find the interpretations (Ian btw just reads them and believe in them because they appear to let his souls survive, but such interpretations are not product of his mind) appealing, and that you dont buy all his paraphernalia.
 

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