Near-death experiences!

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Who's in trouble?

You, of course. You are the believer, not I.

Got that right.

Except the part about "trouble."

No trouble here.

 

[chillzero]

Wouldn't Satanists be people who believe in god, yet reject him? Not reject as in disbelieve, reject is in choose not to follow and, in fact, follow the opposite path.

Perhaps, but not every person who rejects God is necessarily a Satanist. The difference is that a Satanist is someone who welcomes Satan into their heart and lives - much as a Christian does with God.

Someone who rejects God - like the guy I went to school with - does not necessarily follow the opposite path, My school mate chose to follow his own path and use his own moral compass - as he believed God gave him the right to do. He did not welcome either God or Satan to have any further part in his life.

 

[Belz...]

If their life before the NDE was wicked, their NDE was unpleasant, and they returned to a reformed life of sacrifice and goodness, I would think we would be well advised to take notice.

I don't see how it could be seen as evidence. Someone who changed his lifestyle after an alleged alien abduction would be in the same situation.

How can that be?

Come on, Huntster. If I tell you he doesn't exist, I don't reject Him, because I don't even believe He exists. Then again, if I tell you that he exists but I want nothing to do with Him, it's different, isn't it ?

 

[Belz...]

No, but I see NDEs as valid testimony that an afterlife is as it is described religiously.

I thought there WASN'T any proof, by definition. Why would God make an expection in this case ?

By refusing to believe, you have rejected.

This is the point I'm talking about. No one is "refusing" to believe. It's not denial. It's inability, based on known facts.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Huntster seems to be claiming that belief is a matter of choice.

 

[Huntster]

....If I tell you he doesn't exist, I don't reject Him, because I don't even believe He exists. Then again, if I tell you that he exists but I want nothing to do with Him, it's different, isn't it ?

Yes, those two scenarios are different.

Both are rejection, though.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
No, but I see NDEs as valid testimony that an afterlife is as it is described religiously.

I thought there WASN'T any proof, by definition. Why would God make an expection in this case ?

Valid testimony isn't proof. It's evidence.

By refusing to believe, you have rejected.

This is the point I'm talking about. No one is "refusing" to believe. It's not denial. It's inability, based on known facts.

It is rejection of the possibility, based on (what you see as) weak evidence.

 

[Huntster]

Huntster seems to be claiming that belief is a matter of choice.

As are rejection and agnosticism.

 

[thaiboxerken]

As are rejection and agnosticism.

Belief is not a matter of choice. If you think it is, then go ahead and become a full-believing muslim for a day.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, those two scenarios are different.

Both are rejection, though.

But not of the same thing. One rejects the concept, the other the person (while assuming he exists.)

 

[Belz...]

Valid testimony isn't proof. It's evidence.

Yes. Evidence of the weakest kind.

I didn't know God provided evidence for his existence.

It is rejection of the possibility, based on (what you see as) weak evidence.

Yes, indeed.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster :
Yes, those two scenarios are different.

Both are rejection, though.

But not of the same thing. One rejects the concept, the other the person (while assuming he exists.)

Yup.

 

[Belz...]

Yup.

Well at least we agree on something