Neandertal genes found in all non-African populations

[randman]

Foster, I am well aware of that debate and have argued, you can go the archives at EvC to see for yourself, the same thing for a long time, namely Neanderthals were simply another human tribe, an ethnic group. Even calling them a subspecies is misleading, imo.

But why all the nastiness?

I predicted and stated that Neanderthal DNA would be found in current human populations; that they shared all the same behaviors of people, etc,.....and of course, the evos there insisted they were a separate species, did not interbreed, etc,.....They were, of course, wrong just as they were on the dinosaur soft tissue and many other things as is typical of evos despite their constant smears, charging their critics with ignorance.

You seem to have adopted a very similar pattern of thought and tone as the typical evo, I might add. You even basically agreed with my statement they should be considered people but felt the need (insecurity?) to throw out some baseless personal attacks, and yes, the history of depicting them as ape-like is well-known and has colored perceptions of Neanderthals, which frankly were just another ethnic group but with pronounced features.

 

[NoahFence]

My wife's been chatting about this for years - her theory was that we interbreeded and this is why some folks can be murderous with zero compassion "savages" - while others couldn't even hurt a mouse without massive guilt.

(before you snicker, she's a Harvard grad with Biological Anthopology)

Not exactly an expert but well read nonetheless. It would go a long way to explaining these traits, no?

 

[randman]

My wife's been chatting about this for years - her theory was that we interbreeded and this is why some folks can be murderous with zero compassion "savages" - while others couldn't even hurt a mouse without massive guilt.

(before you snicker, she's a Harvard grad with Biological Anthopology)

Not exactly an expert but well read nonetheless. It would go a long way to explaining these traits, no?

So which group are the savages and which are the tender folk?

 

[pakeha]

...I predicted and stated that Neanderthal DNA would be found in current human populations; that they shared all the same behaviors of people, etc,.....and of course, the evos there insisted they were a separate species, did not interbreed, etc,...

Tell us where you made this prediction, randman.

 

[Michael Mozina]

So which group are the savages and which are the tender folk?

Great question.

 

[NoahFence]

So which group are the savages and which are the tender folk?

Neandertal = savage

Which was probably a word too harsh, but I think you get the point. Seems as good a theory as any to explain the vast differences in human compassion.

 

[randman]

Tell us where you made this prediction, randman.

On the EvC forum a few years back. They probably still have it in archives but they have edited some threads out. I bet that is still there, however.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I studied a bit of anthropology in college, and at the time (mid 90's) the prevailing theory held H. sapiens sapiens and H. sapiens neandertalensis apart genetically. Note the word "prevailing," not "exclusive." There were some theories that interbreeding had occurred. Anthropology has quite a bit of emotional baggage, though, and the avoidance of even slight perceptions of racism heavily influenced research and theory in the years after WW2.

Until a few years ago the question was moot as there was now way to test for any genetic connections, and if an idea cannot be tested it can't be verified or dismissed. Romantic ideas or emotional reactions might stimulate scientists to research in given directions, but if the idea ain't testable it ain't science.

 

[Foster Zygote]

My wife's been chatting about this for years - her theory was that we interbreeded and this is why some folks can be murderous with zero compassion "savages" - while others couldn't even hurt a mouse without massive guilt.

(before you snicker, she's a Harvard grad with Biological Anthopology)

Not exactly an expert but well read nonetheless. It would go a long way to explaining these traits, no?

No.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Neandertal = savage

Why?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

The old "theories" that neandertal (note spelling, randman) genes were represented in humans were pretty much tossed out BECAUSE of the "savage" notions. Thing is, the most likely craniofacial markers that would indicate neandertal lineage are all in Europe: more sloping forehead, monobrow, certain jaw shape features.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Foster, I am well aware of that debate and have argued, you can go the archives at EvC to see for yourself, the same thing for a long time, namely Neanderthals were simply another human tribe, an ethnic group. Even calling them a subspecies is misleading, imo.

But why all the nastiness?

I predicted and stated that Neanderthal DNA would be found in current human populations; that they shared all the same behaviors of people, etc,.....and of course, the evos there insisted they were a separate species, did not interbreed, etc,.....They were, of course, wrong just as they were on the dinosaur soft tissue and many other things as is typical of evos despite their constant smears, charging their critics with ignorance.

You seem to have adopted a very similar pattern of thought and tone as the typical evo, I might add. You even basically agreed with my statement they should be considered people but felt the need (insecurity?) to throw out some baseless personal attacks, and yes, the history of depicting them as ape-like is well-known and has colored perceptions of Neanderthals, which frankly were just another ethnic group but with pronounced features.

Randman's idea of neanderthal just being a different race in humanity seems no different than expecting to find distinct and altered genome evidence of inbreeding between current contemporary races. While you can trace inter breeding in any person back to Africa, the fact remains that all the races today share the same genome, but for the minutia that comprises our physical differences.

The neanderthal genome is clearly mapped and different than modern humans, we only share a trace of it. If neanderthal were just a different race of modern human, than their genome would not be as different as it is.

 

[randman]

So the meek really did inherit the earth but some of that savage Neanderthal DNA got mixed up with us anyway...

 

[Halfcentaur]

Neandertal = savage

Which was probably a word too harsh, but I think you get the point. Seems as good a theory as any to explain the vast differences in human compassion.

Neanderthals were not violent savage brutes. Some clearly cared for their mentally retarded and mentally ill, and their old and helpless.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Definitely. We're talking a group about the size of the field battles at Pensic (and much less well-armed) taking on the entire globe. Screw floods and such--we need myths about that! Mostly because I seriously doubt anything we wrote would come close to what they actually did.

This is the reason I love science--it's stranger, and vastly more wonderful, than fiction.

Indeed, even moving along the coast at a mile a generation, it only took something like ten thousand years to make it to Australia.

Amazing to trace the journey, gathering in Mesopotamia and the region around India before spreading out then in different branches up into Asia and Europe and eventually North and South America.

 

[Halfcentaur]

So the meek really did inherit the earth but some of that savage Neanderthal DNA got mixed up with us anyway...

Yes, God's flood killed those dirty neanderthals. And Gilgamesh was a stow away on Noah's boat, hiding with the apes worshiping his pet snake.

 

[NoahFence]

No.

Hellova argument.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Neandertal = savage

Which was probably a word too harsh, but I think you get the point. Seems as good a theory as any to explain the vast differences in human compassion.

Being as African populations (no Neandertal DNA) share this same variation in temperament, it seems Neandertal DNA really didn't do much at all for that.

 

[NoahFence]

Why?

The point I was trying to make is that there's a vast difference in mankind's ability to show compassion.

Charles Manson vs. The Dali Lama?

If we need to pin the lack of compassion to homo sapien, rather than neandertal, so be it. Whatever floats your boat.

The point is there IS a huge difference between one person and another - and interbreeding could explain it, no?

 

[Halfcentaur]

The point I was trying to make is that there's a vast difference in mankind's ability to show compassion.

Charles Manson vs. The Dali Lama?

If we need to pin the lack of compassion to homo sapien, rather than neandertal, so be it. Whatever floats your boat.

The point is there IS a huge difference between one person and another - and interbreeding could explain it, no?

I don't think psychopaths = primitive. The sort of violence that comes from mob mentality is another matter.