National Emergency

Seems like Donnie's schedule indicates almost zilch in the way of meetings or panels to discuss the "emergency". His most-public events of the past two weeks have been meetings with furriners who would have nothing to offer on the topic, a pass-out-the-paper-towels trip to Alabama, a couple of rounds of golf with pros, and maniacal tweeting sessions. Business as usual, in other words.

I think we can safely qualify just what the "emergency" consists of. "Waaaah, they won't give me the money I want for my white-elephant-boondoggle! How'm I gonna get elected if I don't have a wall to pose in front of!!??"
 
It could be an almost deliberate move by Trump to give the Courts every reason to strike down his Emergency, so he can campaign on "Give me more PWR to I can control everything!"
 
It could be an almost deliberate move by Trump actual not-insane-but-evil GOP backroom wonks to give the Courts every reason to strike down his Emergency, so he can campaign on "Give me more PWR to I can control everything!"
Donny doesn't know what time of day it is after someone tells him. So I doubt he could figure out any deliberate shenanigans involving constitutional law.
 
Who thinks that? Please be specific.

Anarchists. As far as I can remember, I've seen a total of one single anarchist on this site, and I don't think they post here anymore.

Anyone else is a figment of conservative imagination.

Edit: I seem to have been wrong. :D
 
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Interesting. Do you often define people who disagree with you as idiots?



The problem is that you are misrepresenting the question, and over-analysing the problem. Deliberately, I might add, since you've already been told this more than once. Your continued confusion can't be given the benefit of the doubt at this stage.



Yes, there is an actual problem with illegal immigration, and yes, the situation can be improved. No, a wall is not the best solution, and no, you can't solve it entirely. Does this create problems for your brain?
Did you just call me an idiot?

What a massive strawman... :o

I don't know where to begin to pick your post apart. It's damned near the "not even wrong" category.
 
Donny doesn't know what time of day it is after someone tells him. So I doubt he could figure out any deliberate shenanigans involving constitutional law.

"Tommy doesn't know what day it is
He doesn't know who Jesus was or what praying is"

Sorry, ear worm controlling my brain.
 
Why can't we secure the border to ensure no more illegal crossings.
Declare Amnesty for those illegals who have been here 10+ years and have been law abiding (other than by coming/working here illegally).
Let them apply for citizenship and grant them citizenship. Let's welcome them to their new civic duty of paying income taxes.
They really should pay some sort of fine for not paying income tax for those 10 years they were here if they were working.

For those who have been here less than 10 years, send them back out and let them come in again legally (provided these folks are not criminals with records of course).
This grand bargain was proposed 14 years ago.

The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act would have done pretty much what you suggest. George W. Bush, John McCain and Teddy Kennedy championed it. But some extremely vile people hammered it as "amnesty." Versions that called for illegal immigrants paying a fine and getting a misdemeanor record also inspired hatred, fear and threats. The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 inspired much the same reaction. Everything you've thought of, others have too, including quite a few Republicans. It was not politically doable.

There is nothing, IMO, that will satisfy the "secure the borders first" crowd, except for a big, beautiful 40-foot-tall, 2000-mile long wall. In the meantime, a substantial fence act was passed and many new border agents were approved. Turns out the U.S. can't hire them fast enough to staff at these levels. It's been tried and is not even controversial, but in practice it isn't happening.

Many also went ballistic at the idea of a guest worker program that would have matched employers and temporary farm labor.

The border is never going to be secure enough to satisfy people who insist the U.S. has done nothing to make the border more secure.

And, unintended consequence: It's a viable theory that ramped-up security encouraged more family immigration. Migrant workers that used to slip in and out of the country feared they would no longer be able to do so, so rather than risk permanent separation they moved their families up here as well.

Everything you suggest is reasonable and I hope that someday soon such legislation will be viable, but at present it's not. Farm-state Republicans wouldn't even agree to mandate that all employers use E-Verify to vet potential hires. And imagine the reaction if Congress proposed a tamper-resistant, biometric ID card that would make it relatively easy to tell who is in the country legally.

Jeff Flake traded his vote on the tax cut for vague assurances that DACA issues would be fixed legislatively. Why he trusted McConnell is beyond me. That simple thing, which has a lot of legislative support, can't happen because Senate Republicans are unwilling to address it as a standalone issue.

Just in case you really believe the fix is simple, please believe me, it's not. There is a lot of hatred and fear involved as well as money, some of it from private-prison operators who want to see more people detained because they can get contracts for ludicrously expensive detention facilities. In some cases the detainees are being paid $1 to $3 a day to maintain the facilities - while operators get literally hundreds of dollars a day for each immigrant. Your tax dollars at work.

I'm not saying Democrats don't have any culpability. They do. But they are not the ones making any reasonable reform impossible. Republicans keep their heads down because there are some very nasty people out there who will make death threats to any lawmaker who proposes any halfway decent reform such as the measures you say you support.
 
Our inaction on immigration reform as a Country is shameful. No matter which side one supports they're all accountable. I had hoped Obama would get something done. He wasn't my guy, but I really thought he could fix the immigration issues. Now Trump is at bat, and likewise he has taken on the problem that has been passed down by one President after another since Reagan. If he passes it on without action I'll likely vote Independent or Green party next election as it would seem Neither Republican nor Democrat is up to the task. It's well past time that someone did something right on immigration reform. All eyes on Trump at the moment.

Chris B.
 
Did you just call me an idiot?

....where?

What a massive strawman...

...where? YOU said that anyone who is intelligent has to agree with you. By definition this means that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is an idiot. Those are your words, not mine.

I don't know where to begin to pick your post apart. It's damned near the "not even wrong" category.

Which parts? The last paragraph should have enough substance for you to respond, if you weren't desperately trying to avoid admitting to being wrong.
 
....where?







...where? YOU said that anyone who is intelligent has to agree with you. By definition this means that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is an idiot. Those are your words, not mine.







Which parts? The last paragraph should have enough substance for you to respond, if you weren't desperately trying to avoid admitting to being wrong.

Oh dear. False dilemma: "Intelligent" vs. "Idiot".

The last paragraph has almost no resemblence to the simplistic and loaded question Bob and I answered "no" to. I get that you don't get the massive loading of that question, but that's entirely your problem.
 
Oh dear. False dilemma: "Intelligent" vs. "Idiot".

The last paragraph has almost no resemblence to the simplistic and loaded question Bob and I answered "no" to. I get that you don't get the massive loading of that question, but that's entirely your problem.

Exactly what I said earlier. You are utterly incapable of even considering that your interpretation might be wrong. It's your way, or you're not intelligent. But not stupid. Oh, no. Not intelligent doesn't mean stupid. :rolleyes:

Pull the other one.
 
Just checking in from overseas.

How is it going for you guys?

Do you need help from the UN maybe?
Soldiers, cars, planes, food... anything?

Must be scary with such an urgent national emergency.
You're very lucky to have a president who actually cares for his people and does everything in his power to fight the dangers.

Sending you my thoughts and prayers for sure.
 
Just checking in from overseas.

How is it going for you guys?

Do you need help from the UN maybe?
Soldiers, cars, planes, food... anything?


UN soldiers? Are you crazy?!? We're not going to let them use one invasion as an excuse to invade us from another direction. The UN has been plotting to invade US soil for decades. There was even a brief discussion here (in one of the Conspiracy Theory Stundie threads) about how the bar codes on the backs of road signs are to help the UN invaders navigate. They're on the backs because the UN troops will all be from Europe, where they drive on the wrong side of the road.
 
Our inaction on immigration reform as a Country is shameful. No matter which side one supports they're all accountable. I had hoped Obama would get something done. He wasn't my guy, but I really thought he could fix the immigration issues.
My interpretation is that he chose to move the country toward universal health care instead of fixing immigration. There was also a little financial crisis to deal with as well. Republicans meanwhile had vowed not to work with him on anything. Immigration would have been no different. Maybe Obama should have seized the window he had to "fix" immigration with a Democratic Congress, but he wasn't great at ramming measures through and he let himself get pushed around.

So now you can bitch that he did do health care and didn't do immigration. You can claim a lie he told in 2013 made your insurance premiums go up even though the actual legislation was passed years before. Hell yes Obamacare was flawed. He was naive enough to think that emulating a Republican model would garner Republican support, but he was wrong.

Now Trump is at bat, and likewise he has taken on the problem that has been passed down by one President after another since Reagan.
Oh, Reagan had his share of culpability. He just came along before the Internet arose to savage his values, which included amnesty and discouraged fence-worship. And George W. Bush did everything he could to get what you proposed passed. It was largely his own party that defeated him, and also IMO spawned the vitriol against McCain that Trump carries on 7 months after McCain died.

If he passes it on without action I'll likely vote Independent or Green party next election as it would seem Neither Republican nor Democrat is up to the task. It's well past time that someone did something right on immigration reform. All eyes on Trump at the moment.
You know, I'd like to believe you, but I have my doubts. Why on Earth you would give Trump any credibility on this issue - or any other - is beyond me. I also don't understand why Trump's supporters think he has any legislative savvy. Just about any Republican president would have done the job of passing tax cuts and appointing conservative justices, so no credit due Trump there. Meanwhile even House Republicans couldn't agree on a simple plan to make it harder to hire illegal workers.

Trump might actually have had decent instincts on immigration once - his "we'll work with them" model - but if you don't think that would earn him a vicious smack-down from his own base, you are at best naive about the nature of his most staunch supporters.
 
If building a wall won't work, what will?
What are you trying to accomplish with a wall?

I want the immigration crisis solved. Do you?
Yes, but I suspect we don't actually agree on what the crisis is.

I want secure borders that prevent illegal crossings. Do you?
Maybe. Are all illegal crossings detrimental to the US or are some beneficial? Are some of the crossings Trump is calling "illegal" actually illegal or are some permitted by law?

I want a path to citizenship for current illegals. Do you?
Sure.
 
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Our inaction on immigration reform as a Country is shameful. No matter which side one supports they're all accountable. I had hoped Obama would get something done. He wasn't my guy, but I really thought he could fix the immigration issues. Now Trump is at bat, and likewise he has taken on the problem that has been passed down by one President after another since Reagan. If he passes it on without action I'll likely vote Independent or Green party next election as it would seem Neither Republican nor Democrat is up to the task. It's well past time that someone did something right on immigration reform. All eyes on Trump at the moment.

Chris B.

As mentioned, it is very simple to fix migration.
But not with a wall.
 
Maybe. Are all illegal crossings detrimental to the US or are some beneficial? Are some of the crossings Trump is calling "illegal" actually illegal or are some permitted by law?

Zero illegal crossings are beneficial. Breaking any law is not beneficial over doing it legally, except to the person committing the act.

What does Trumps opinion have to do with a crossing being illegal or not?
 
UN soldiers? Are you crazy?!? We're not going to let them use one invasion as an excuse to invade us from another direction. The UN has been plotting to invade US soil for decades. There was even a brief discussion here (in one of the Conspiracy Theory Stundie threads) about how the bar codes on the backs of road signs are to help the UN invaders navigate. They're on the backs because the UN troops will all be from Europe, where they drive on the wrong side of the road.

I thought those were for the ISIS invasion through Mexico? U.N. Invasion was supposed to be Jade Helm, but since the savvy patriots exposed the plot, there was a phony "military exercise" cooked up to replace it.

In any case, the U.N. clearly still has it in for Texas.
 
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Zero illegal crossings are beneficial. Breaking any law is not beneficial over doing it legally, except to the person committing the act.
I think you might find that farmers who rely on seasonal migratory workers might disagree with you. And the contributions made to social security that will never be paid back out. And the sales tax paid.

It's interesting that you think laws are always in the public's best interests. A brief study of history will find many examples where breaking a bad law was better than obeying it, ultimately more for the people who didn't break it over then immediately for the ones who did.

What does Trumps opinion have to do with a crossing being illegal or not?
Because Trump considers people entering the country to apply for sanctuary illegal when it's really not.
 

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