National Emergency

phiwum said:
Oh, for God's sake, I labeled it NIMBY because it is a literal case of "Not In My Back Yard". I was explicitly not using NIMBY in the traditional, pejorative sense.

Give it a rest. Save your righteous indignation for appropriate targets.

ETA: Of course location is not the only problem. Duh. There are many good reasons for opposing Trump's wall. I have said so repeatedly, though not in the post that pulled your hair trigger because that post was just a simple, innocent observation that land owners are objecting, in part, to the construction of a wall on their property, loosely, their back yards.
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Whatever. :rolleyes:
 
//DEVIL'S ADVOCATE

You can say your not for open borders all you want, but if "closed" borders that are basically only closed on the honor system are "open" in all but pedantics.

DEVIL'S ADVOCATE//

Now back to the real world a sane border control policy would not be rejected by the Dems. Increased patrols, sensor networks, better training for border control agents, even limited physical barriers in some locations, stuff like that I'm sure could be put on the table for at least valid consideration and discussion.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I was appalled that Democratic Representative Gutierrez was for open borders. I believe he is the only one I saw with that POV.

Obviously it is not the common view of the Democrats but the right-wing, including Trump, have been repeating the lie so often they believe it no matter how many times it is refuted.
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I was not aware of Gutierrez, who retired in 2018. I Googled his name + "open borders" and found only links to right wing sites that I didn't read, since I thought they may quote him out of context. His WP page doesn't contain the phrase "open borders", but says that in 2009 he introduced a bill involving improved border security, so I still haven't found evidence of his position on this. Got any handy sources?
 
phiwum said:
I was not aware of Gutierrez, who retired in 2018. I Googled his name + "open borders" and found only links to right wing sites that I didn't read, since I thought they may quote him out of context. His WP page doesn't contain the phrase "open borders", but says that in 2009 he introduced a bill involving improved border security, so I still haven't found evidence of his position on this. Got any handy sources?
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I saw him clearly state it himself when he was walking or marching with a small group of Hispanics.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
You don't disagree but you still labeled it NIMBY.

I don't think NIMBY is the issue. That implies it is only the location that is the problem: yes we need a wall, just not here.
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1600 Pennsylvania Ave. seems like a good spot. We can protect the country from one of its worst threats, and BONUS ... the government already owns the property.
 
phiwum said:
I was not aware of Gutierrez, who retired in 2018. I Googled his name + "open borders" and found only links to right wing sites that I didn't read, since I thought they may quote him out of context. His WP page doesn't contain the phrase "open borders", but says that in 2009 he introduced a bill involving improved border security, so I still haven't found evidence of his position on this. Got any handy sources?
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Being quoted out of context does happen a lot these days.

Chris B.
 
Why can't we secure the border to ensure no more illegal crossings.
Declare Amnesty for those illegals who have been here 10+ years and have been law abiding (other than by coming/working here illegally).
Let them apply for citizenship and grant them citizenship. Let's welcome them to their new civic duty of paying income taxes.
They really should pay some sort of fine for not paying income tax for those 10 years they were here if they were working.

For those who have been here less than 10 years, send them back out and let them come in again legally (provided these folks are not criminals with records of course).

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Declare Amnesty for those illegals who have been here 10+ years and have been law abiding (other than by coming/working here illegally).
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You mean people like Melanija Knavs?

Let them apply for citizenship and grant them citizenship.
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I think that she already did.

Let's welcome them to their new civic duty of paying income taxes.
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I'm not sure that the members of that family do that.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Why can't we secure the border to ensure no more illegal crossings.
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No one in this thread says we can't.

We are saying two things: (1) The wall is an inefficient way of doing so (and is really being pushed for purely political advantage) and (2) Congress considered funding the wall and said no and at this point, a National Emergency is not at all warranted by the circumstances.

Stop pretending that either one is in favor of the Emergency declaration or one wants open borders. There's a reason that some Republicans voted for the wall but against the emergency declaration. (The name of the fallacy you are applying here is "false dichotomy".)
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Declare Amnesty for those illegals who have been here 10+ years and have been law abiding (other than by coming/working here illegally).
Let them apply for citizenship and grant them citizenship. Let's welcome them to their new civic duty of paying income taxes.
They really should pay some sort of fine for not paying income tax for those 10 years they were here if they were working.
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This part should perhaps be directed at the Republicans. It is not what Trump has suggested.

It would make a better case for enhance security at the border perhaps. It does not make a wall the best use of funds.
 
phiwum said:
No one in this thread says we can't.

We are saying two things: (1) The wall is an inefficient way of doing so (and is really being pushed for purely political advantage) and (2) Congress considered funding the wall and said no and at this point, a National Emergency is not at all warranted by the circumstances.

Stop pretending that either one is in favor of the Emergency declaration or one wants open borders. There's a reason that some Republicans voted for the wall but against the emergency declaration. (The name of the fallacy you are applying here is "false dichotomy".)
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phiwum said:
This part should perhaps be directed at the Republicans. It is not what Trump has suggested.

It would make a better case for enhance security at the border perhaps. It does not make a wall the best use of funds.
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I don't think we're going to see anything to help illegal immigrants in this Country until the border is secure.

This problem has been ignored by all parties. It's time something is done and if that means declaring a National Emergency I'm all for it. And once the border has been secured I expect to see some Immigration reform.

Political parties aside I'm sick of hearing promises to deal with immigration by all sides yet nothing gets done. It's a disgrace.

Chris B.
 
Belz... said:
Have you not read this thread or other discussions about this issue? If not, why pretend like you have any sort of knowledge about it? You don't come off very well doing that.
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I've read this thread and suggest you do so as well. This thread is mainly a lot of bellyaching about Trump's wall with no discussion of another method to keep illegals from crossing our border. (I do remember seeing one post suggesting a fence patrolled by tigers, but that must have been a joke.)

Instead of complaining about the National Emergency, why not use some of that vast gray matter to come up with an alternative that would prevent illegals from crossing our borders.

If building a wall won't work, what will?
I want the immigration crisis solved. Do you?
I want secure borders that prevent illegal crossings. Do you?
I want a path to citizenship for current illegals. Do you?

I realize these opinions from a Trump supporter may seem uncomfortable for you but there's really no need to be insulting. I'm all for discussion of the problems as I'd like to see them solved.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
I've read this thread and suggest you do so as well.
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Been there, done that.

This thread is mainly a lot of bellyaching about Trump's wall with no discussion of another method to keep illegals from crossing our border.
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Yeah because the heavy lifting's already been done.

If building a wall won't work, what will?
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I told you to read the thread. There are alternatives to patrol the border that don't involve a stupid, ineffective and expensive wall that'll have to be perpetually manned.
 
Belz... said:
Been there, done that.



Yeah because the heavy lifting's already been done.



I told you to read the thread. There are alternatives to patrol the border that don't involve a stupid, ineffective and expensive wall that'll have to be perpetually manned.
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That's fine. It would seem you don't wish to have a conversation on other methods that could be used to prevent illegal border crossings other than a wall. I will take that as a silent confirmation that building a border wall is the right thing to do.

Chris B.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
That's fine. It would seem you don't wish to have a conversation on other methods that could be used to prevent illegal border crossings other than a wall. I will take that as a silent confirmation that building a border wall is the right thing to do.
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That's tremendously dishonest of you, but I didn't expect anything else given your unwillingness to educate yourself on this issue.

The reason why I'm unwilling to discuss this further is the same reason why I won't start from scratch the next time a truther shows up to start yet another 9-11 thread. At some point it's no use playing whack-a-mole with those who won't learn or listen.
 
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