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Hitchens's razor.
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National Emergency
- Thread starter acbytesla
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Hitchens's razor.
Parsman
Muse
So let's get this straight. Because we accept a thorough report by the SC but still choose to focus on the huge body of evidence outside of that report that describes why Trump is a bad President we are like 9/11 fantasists?
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
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Mexico is apparently issuing visas of passage in the form of wristbands that allow them to travel as groups relatively unharmed. That's the practice that has Trump pissed off. I think Trump wants Mexico to turn them away at the Mexican border.
What would be required IMO is some kind of treaty between the U.S. and Mexico to either stop asylum seekers at the Mexican border, or require that they be processed in Mexico in hope Mexico could accommodate them.
But I wouldn't want to enter into any kind of treaty with the U.S. at this point.
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
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Most Americans aren't that great on geography.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Tell us about it, Mein guter Cobberfreund.
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
You did just there!
Off the cuff, and since I see 9/11 quoted above, I'll say the The Patriot Act. The lie was using 9/11 as the excuse for it.
There weren't cameras on every city block. There was no mass surveillance of citizens (not anything like there is now). That isn't just one thing - the surveillance changed things across the board. Phones, email, better watch what you say now! Banking. Traveling was not as big a pain in the butt. You could bring nail clippers and toothpaste on a plane OMG!
No metal detectors at sporting events, at least not the ones I attended. First metal detectors I saw were at an NHL game about 2 weeks after the attack. Was also the day the airports reopened. I remember walking to the arena and seeing a plane flying low directly overhead to land at the airport. EVERYONE on the street looked up and was at least a little freaked by it, including me.
Life was a lot different 20 years ago. The Patriot Act changed so much of our lives the list is virtually endless. Funny, I looked online just now and some people think not much changed. How quickly we forget. I'M even forgetting a lot (very tired today) - my list of changes seems weak.
Ask a U.S. Muslim how their lives changed. People didn't even notice them back then. What's a Muslim? The day after 9/11 Muslims hid in their homes. Everyone knew them on that day, or thought they did.
I think people that aren't old enough to remember have no clue how different life really was. People that are say under 28 years old grew up with this.
I don't know if this fits the thread now that I typed it all out.
There weren't cameras on every city block. There was no mass surveillance of citizens (not anything like there is now). That isn't just one thing - the surveillance changed things across the board. Phones, email, better watch what you say now! Banking. Traveling was not as big a pain in the butt. You could bring nail clippers and toothpaste on a plane OMG!
No metal detectors at sporting events, at least not the ones I attended. First metal detectors I saw were at an NHL game about 2 weeks after the attack. Was also the day the airports reopened. I remember walking to the arena and seeing a plane flying low directly overhead to land at the airport. EVERYONE on the street looked up and was at least a little freaked by it, including me.
Life was a lot different 20 years ago. The Patriot Act changed so much of our lives the list is virtually endless. Funny, I looked online just now and some people think not much changed. How quickly we forget. I'M even forgetting a lot (very tired today) - my list of changes seems weak.
Ask a U.S. Muslim how their lives changed. People didn't even notice them back then. What's a Muslim? The day after 9/11 Muslims hid in their homes. Everyone knew them on that day, or thought they did.
I think people that aren't old enough to remember have no clue how different life really was. People that are say under 28 years old grew up with this.
I don't know if this fits the thread now that I typed it all out.
W.D.Clinger
Philosopher
mgidm86's comments here might have been more appropriate for the "biggest political lie" thread, but I'm responding because those comments reminded me of something that hasn't drawn as much comment in this thread (and others) as I think it deserves. Bear with me as I approach the topic through personal anecdote.
The pocketknife I had been carrying for 20 years had a 2.75-inch blade. For my purposes, I discovered there's a big difference between 2.75 inches and 2.5 inches. I gave up my habit of slicing apples and making bagel sandwiches at work (because 2.5 inches was too short to slice the bagels) and started to buy cheese in smaller bricks I could slice with the shorter blade.
There was a silver lining. I had owned only one pocketknife, which I carried everywhere. That no longer made sense. I needed a 2.5-inch knife that would be legal in the city, but I needn't compromise so much on the knife I carry around where I live and when hiking/snowshoeing/skiiing/bicycling. I bought a dozen knives before settling on a couple that were legal in the city, a 3.25-inch blade for town, a small lockback for casual hikes, a larger lockback for serious day hikes, and a medium-sized fixed blade knife for serious backpacking. In the process, I became interested in knives, and knife collecting turned into a minor hobby for a while.
I also decided that, when I retire, I would move to a place where local politicians are less prone to pass illiberal laws that have a lot less to do with solving a problem than with giving a false impression that politicians are doing something about the problem. By influencing where I live, the Patriot Act and related post-9/11 legislation has had a big impact on my life.
Which gets back to this national emergency. Passing laws and promulgating regulations whose only real purpose is to allow politicians to say they've done something is often regarded, in the US, as a trait associated with "liberal" politicians. Nowadays, however, doing things that make no sense just so you can take credit for doing something has become a hallmark of Trumpism, and this national emergency is an example of that.
Whereas "liberal" grandstanding often resulted in laws and regulations that, while annoying in minor ways (as in the anti-knife legislation described above), might also have some small benefit, Trump's grandstanding has often been harmful out of all proportion to any conceivable benefit. This national emergency is an example of that, and Trump's threat to close the border with Mexico (which is of course related to the national emergency being discussed in this thread) would be an even more harmful example.
Following 9/11, the city in which I work passed a law that largely banned the possession of pocketknives with a blade longer than 2.5 inches. (Some reasonable exceptions were added, but a few surrounding cities and towns adopted the original wording, which (on a literal reading of the law as worded) made it illegal for residents to carry a table knife from kitchen to dining room.)Off the cuff, and since I see 9/11 quoted above, I'll say the The Patriot Act. The lie was using 9/11 as the excuse for it.
There weren't cameras on every city block. There was no mass surveillance of citizens (not anything like there is now). That isn't just one thing - the surveillance changed things across the board. Phones, email, better watch what you say now! Banking. Traveling was not as big a pain in the butt. You could bring nail clippers and toothpaste on a plane OMG!
No metal detectors at sporting events....
Life was a lot different 20 years ago....
The pocketknife I had been carrying for 20 years had a 2.75-inch blade. For my purposes, I discovered there's a big difference between 2.75 inches and 2.5 inches. I gave up my habit of slicing apples and making bagel sandwiches at work (because 2.5 inches was too short to slice the bagels) and started to buy cheese in smaller bricks I could slice with the shorter blade.
There was a silver lining. I had owned only one pocketknife, which I carried everywhere. That no longer made sense. I needed a 2.5-inch knife that would be legal in the city, but I needn't compromise so much on the knife I carry around where I live and when hiking/snowshoeing/skiiing/bicycling. I bought a dozen knives before settling on a couple that were legal in the city, a 3.25-inch blade for town, a small lockback for casual hikes, a larger lockback for serious day hikes, and a medium-sized fixed blade knife for serious backpacking. In the process, I became interested in knives, and knife collecting turned into a minor hobby for a while.
I also decided that, when I retire, I would move to a place where local politicians are less prone to pass illiberal laws that have a lot less to do with solving a problem than with giving a false impression that politicians are doing something about the problem. By influencing where I live, the Patriot Act and related post-9/11 legislation has had a big impact on my life.
Which gets back to this national emergency. Passing laws and promulgating regulations whose only real purpose is to allow politicians to say they've done something is often regarded, in the US, as a trait associated with "liberal" politicians. Nowadays, however, doing things that make no sense just so you can take credit for doing something has become a hallmark of Trumpism, and this national emergency is an example of that.
Whereas "liberal" grandstanding often resulted in laws and regulations that, while annoying in minor ways (as in the anti-knife legislation described above), might also have some small benefit, Trump's grandstanding has often been harmful out of all proportion to any conceivable benefit. This national emergency is an example of that, and Trump's threat to close the border with Mexico (which is of course related to the national emergency being discussed in this thread) would be an even more harmful example.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
After many years (decades), Mexico is apprehending large numbers of people at their Southern Border, mostly from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. They have ALL been taking U.S. money for years, and doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for us, just like the Democrats in Congress!
“I haven’t seen any Democrats down here at the Border working with us or asking to speak to any of us. They have an open invitation. We are getting overrun, our facilities are overcapacity. We are at an emergency crisis.” Art Del Cueto, National Border Patrol Council.
After many years (decades), Mexico is apprehending large numbers of people at their Southern Border, mostly from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. They have ALL been taking U.S. money for years, and doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for us, just like the Democrats in Congress!
“I haven’t seen any Democrats down here at the Border working with us or asking to speak to any of us. They have an open invitation. We are getting overrun, our facilities are overcapacity. We are at an emergency crisis.” Art Del Cueto, National Border Patrol Council.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
I think Trump will close the border, and the economic impact could well be the straw that breaks the camel's back and sends the US into recession.
I didn't read this but I did indeed intend that for the "biggest lie" thread. I blame it on being sick for over 2 weeks.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
He won't care until his yes-men minders finally grow enough balls to tell him he is not winning as a result. Because until anything like this affects him directly and personally, he could not give a rat's.
And to be honest, this smacks of Miller, not Trump. Trump seems to be fairly ambivalent to whomever he hates - everyone is a fair target. But Miller has a specific and abiding hatred of Hispanics, being a white supremacy sympathiser from way back. Bolton is not far behind.
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
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If Trump doesn't close the border, does that mean he supports open borders?
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
The Crazed and Dishonest Washington Post again purposely got it wrong. Mexico, for the first time in decades, is meaningfully apprehending illegals at THEIR Southern Border, before the long march up to the U.S. This is great and the way it should be. The big flow will stop.......
....However, if for any reason Mexico stops apprehending and bringing the illegals back to where they came from, the U.S. will be forced to Tariff at 25% all cars made in Mexico and shipped over the Border to us. If that doesn’t work, which it will, I will close the Border.......
....This will supersede USMCA. Likewise I am looking at an economic penalty for the 500 Billion Dollars in illegal DRUGS that are shipped and smuggled through Mexico and across our Southern Border. Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
The Crazed and Dishonest Washington Post again purposely got it wrong. Mexico, for the first time in decades, is meaningfully apprehending illegals at THEIR Southern Border, before the long march up to the U.S. This is great and the way it should be. The big flow will stop.......
....However, if for any reason Mexico stops apprehending and bringing the illegals back to where they came from, the U.S. will be forced to Tariff at 25% all cars made in Mexico and shipped over the Border to us. If that doesn’t work, which it will, I will close the Border.......
....This will supersede USMCA. Likewise I am looking at an economic penalty for the 500 Billion Dollars in illegal DRUGS that are shipped and smuggled through Mexico and across our Southern Border. Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
Heading to the Southern Border to show a section of the new Wall being built! Leaving now!
Will soon be landing in Calexico, California to look at a portion of the new WALL being built on our Southern Border. Within two years we will have close to 400 miles built or under construction & keeping our Country SAFE – not easy when the Dems are always fighting to stop you!
Heading to the Southern Border to show a section of the new Wall being built! Leaving now!
Will soon be landing in Calexico, California to look at a portion of the new WALL being built on our Southern Border. Within two years we will have close to 400 miles built or under construction & keeping our Country SAFE – not easy when the Dems are always fighting to stop you!
Belz...
Fiend God
It's a good thing that we can say with a good level of confidence that anything Trump says is a lie.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
He's lying as usual. This isn't his "new wall":
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...s-border-tout-his-wall-actually-plans-n991376
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
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It just turns attention away from Hidalgo and Starr Counties. Also, he wasn't well received in McAllen, remember.
The actual ground zero communities being hit with (yet more) new land seizures and low-balling, late-paying, depression-era-law-they-found-laying-around-for-this shenanigans at CPB and the U.S. Southern District of Texas kinda hate his guts a little bit right now.