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Natal'ya Votonikova - Man in a Box

How the heck does one "discover" that they have the ability to find a Russian-speaking man hiding in a brightly-covered box in a large warehouse?? I find suspect all claims that involve elaborate setups involving a complicated presentation(or show) that one would never casually encounter in real life.
Like some of the more current MDC challenges.
 
NobbyNobbs said:
Can the claimant wear sound-proof headphones?
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There's no such thing as sound proof headphones. Even really good hearing protection will give a reduction of only about 30 dB.
 
sthomson makes a good point about body heat and body odors (sitting in the same place for an hour tends to leave signs beyond sight and hearing).

If it's required to be a warehouse-type setting, would rooms in the warehouse be an acceptable substitute as opposed to boxes? With building-quality recycled air present in each chamber, many of the olfactory methods of obtaining this result get removed from reasonable consideration.

I note that her suggested ability also doesn't seem to mention when she must be brought onto the scene. Is she required to be present throughout the entirety of this hour or can she be brought into the warehouse 55 minutes in? One would think that by remaining in the warehouse for an hour, tracking the differences in smells alone would suggest where the Russian-speaker is.

However, I suggest we go ahead with this challenge anyway. Given Jeff Wagg's proven track record for volunteering for these experiments, anyone have any ideas about how long it would take to teach him Russian?

~ Matt
 
Other things that may need to be pinned down, though I don't see how they could possibly matter:

--Does the man need to be a native speaker? Simply fluent? Know enough to get along? Able to read Russian without understanding what he is reading?

--Also, is the age of the man important?

Perhaps, to overcome one of the sensory problems, each box could have one of those automatic air fresheners that sprays the air every 5 minutes. This should mask any human odors sufficiently.

Can the claimant listen to music on headphones, sufficiently loud enough to overcome any incidental noise from her surroundings?
 
chillzero said:
You don't need to keep the man quiet. You only need to eliminate the possibility she can hear him.
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Maybe have a video camera pointing at the 20 boxes and she looks at a monitor in another part of the building or in a separate building? No chance of hearing anything that way. I agree, the real problem is getting someone who speaks Russian to volunteer to keep still for an hour in an enclosed box.

Keep them in there for 24 hours and I'd be able to tell which box it is blindfolded.

I wonder if she will feel that she has to be in the same room and touch the boxes or something.
 
pavel_do said:
guys... ye ye.. some say that every psychic convinced that he is real..
I sew program.. on Russian TV (via Internet) with this Lady performing Natalja VOROTNIKOVA in TV.. ( here it says Votonikova...though for TV she could have use not real surname)
<snip>
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Hey Pavel,

Any chance of posting a link or finding it on YouTube? We'd have a better idea if we could see her perform.
 
Perhaps this man-in-a-box thing is simpler than we think. Could the man in the box be asleep, or is some condition of wakefulness specified?

~ Matt
 
RoboTimbo said:
Hey Pavel,

Any chance of posting a link or finding it on YouTube? We'd have a better idea if we could see her perform.
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Hmm... There are some videos of the program ( full version actually of Season 1) on TNT Tv webs site.. ( they producing the program) and some on Youtube, but its all in Russian. and no subtitles...
She performs "miracles" there.. like describe person and things about his/her life by holding photo in sealed envelope and supposedly not knowing what photo inside.. she was sayng what happened in apartment and in the Field some years ago.. she was looking and found lost person in forest ( the was was hidden there on purpose)... she Found guy in car ..like in boxes.. and stuff... her claim with boxes.. is ridicules.. out of what she suppose to be able to perform..:) I know she is fake.. but since they was stupid enough to announce it on tv that she will go to US to prove Randy.. no actually they said that Randy heard about there program and got interested...:) and contacted them... it was like year ago.. since that I bugged there forum asking when is she coming.. as there is no application from her. and they baned me from forum:)
 
pavel_do said:
Hmm... There are some videos of the program ( full version actually of Season 1) on TNT Tv webs site.. ( they producing the program) and some on Youtube, but its all in Russian. and no subtitles...
She performs "miracles" there.. like describe person and things about his/her life by holding photo in sealed envelope and supposedly not knowing what photo inside.. she was sayng what happened in apartment and in the Field some years ago.. she was looking and found lost person in forest ( the was was hidden there on purpose)... she Found guy in car ..like in boxes.. and stuff... her claim with boxes.. is ridicules.. out of what she suppose to be able to perform..:) I know she is fake.. but since they was stupid enough to announce it on tv that she will go to US to prove Randy.. no actually they said that Randy heard about there program and got interested...:) and contacted them... it was like year ago.. since that I bugged there forum asking when is she coming.. as there is no application from her. and they baned me from forum:)
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Can you provide some evidence for your statement "I know she is fake"?
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Can you provide some evidence for your statement "I know she is fake"?
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I am basing it on my experience.. YOU CANT BE PERFECT IN ALL.. as she sort off is.. plus the way she performed.. I know it is not the way it works.. in all the options.. Like she held photo in envelope and was saing about the person.. supposedly she has psychometry or she is clairvoyant..to feel energy and read information she would need to hold it with bare hand.. Than when she was sort of describing person being blind folded... She was standing with her eyes covered in front of person sitting on chear and describing ... she was saing it is a woman..famous.. First being a woman her self I am sure she could smell nice perfume..than only woman wear... plus if perfume good it mean expansive.. plus they wouldn't invite cleaner lady for program..many aspects of her PERFORMANCE.. show that she is fake.. at least for me..
 
pavel_do said:
Hmm... There are some videos of the program ( full version actually of Season 1) on TNT Tv webs site.. ( they producing the program) and some on Youtube, but its all in Russian. and no subtitles...
<snip>
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Could you find a link and post it? I don't think we need to speak Russian to see what is happening and it would be very helpful to refer to when discussing protocol. We don't have a lot of information to go on as yet.

... I know she is fake..
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Well, a good protocol will help sort that out.
 
pavel_do said:
I am basing it on my experience.. YOU CANT BE PERFECT IN ALL.. as she sort off is.. plus the way she performed.. I know it is not the way it works.. in all the options.. Like she held photo in envelope and was saing about the person.. supposedly she has psychometry or she is clairvoyant..to feel energy and read information she would need to hold it with bare hand.. Than when she was sort of describing person being blind folded... She was standing with her eyes covered in front of person sitting on chear and describing ... she was saing it is a woman..famous.. First being a woman her self I am sure she could smell nice perfume..than only woman wear... plus if perfume good it mean expansive.. plus they wouldn't invite cleaner lady for program..many aspects of her PERFORMANCE.. show that she is fake.. at least for me..
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...and by "she is fake" you mean to say she advertises herself as psychic but uses trickery, right?
Are you saying she is a mentalist claiming real (for lack of a better description) psychic powers?
 
RoboTimbo said:
Could you find a link and post it? I don't think we need to speak Russian to see what is happening and it would be very helpful to refer to when discussing protocol. We don't have a lot of information to go on as yet.



Well, a good protocol will help sort that out.
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here is web site of the cnanel... http://www.tnt-tv.ru/programs/Extrasense/video/?page=10 and videos of the seson one.. u start from this page and watch it.. and here http://www.tnt-tv.ru/programs/Extrasense/video/?page=9 till N.9 there is finale..
 
fromdownunder said:
My complicated method (and I agree that it is) would largely depend on exactly where she is in relation to the boxes, the actual nature of the boxes themselves, and what she is allowed to do during that one hour period.
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But I think it is still far more complicated than would ever be necessary. Even assuming that she has some way of detecting that there is a person inside a box and that everything else she claims is just a distraction, it is easy to hide that by having a person inside every box, but only one Russian man. That way, all the problems that others have mentioned are solved, but you still only need a maximum of 3 tests with 20 boxes each. Messing around with a variety of different people being looked for at different times doesn't really add anything to the test at all, but is likely to not only complicate matters and make it take longer, but also to give her more opportunity to make excuses.

It does depend on hearing more about her acutal claim though. If she can only find Russian men and not anyone else, that's easy. On the other hand, if she just claims that Russian men are easier to find put she picks up a signal from any person, having people in all the boxes might mean she is unable to tell which is the right box. Of course, finding 20 people willing to be left in a box for an hour could also be a problem.

Since the claim is that she can find a man who speaks Russian, I assume that she could not find a man who does not speak Russian, so if she did, that would be evidence that she was not accurate in her claim, and was possibly finding some way of cheating.
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I can't really think of any way that the target being able to speak Russian would allow her to cheat in a way that a target unable to speak Russian wouldn't. The person/people in boxes certainly won't be allowed to speak to her, so it would be just as paranormal if she could find anyone hidden in a box. Sure, it might mean her claim wasn't exactly accurate, but if she can actually demonstrate a paranormal ability to find people I wouldn't hold that against her, and I doubt the JREF would either.
 
It has been suggested by several posters that since the applicant claims that she can find a male who speaks Russian, perhaps you could hide people not fitting this description (females or people who do not speak Russian) in the other boxes.

I'd like to point out that this does not seem to be an option:
RemieV said:
None of the other boxes can contain people
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As for the rest, Jackalgirl's suggestions seem very reasonable. Use minimalistic, cheap cardboard boxes or curtains. Ensure adequate ventilation (easy if "boxes" have no ceiling). To deal with sounds, one could put a source of random hustles into every box. For example, a live rabbit might do it, but I'm not sure if the applicant would accept that.
 
I'm assuming that "box" is being used metaphorically, in the sense that "man in a box" implies a distinct sense of physical separation between the subjects. If this assumption is correct, it frees up the terms of the protocol immensely.

~ Matt
 
Okay, in trying to help the protocol along, I made some calls. I'm pleased to announce that I have been able to secure the use of the warehouse from the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.


ETA: God help us if she finds a crystal skull.
 
Woe betide us all should she locate the Cross of Coronado.

~ Matt
 
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