Natal'ya Votonikova - Man in a Box

gtc

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Is the expense from the red boxes?

If so, could a wharehouse with empty shipping containers be used instead?
 
Cost of hiring a warehouse and shipping containers?

I was confused by these bits -
RemieV said:
...she will be able to identify a box containing a male who speaks Russian...

... she will be able to identify a box ... amongst many ... identical boxes if there is a Russian male inside. None of the other boxes can contain people...
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Does the person in the box have to be Russian or just speak Russian? And male? In a brightly coloured box? So a Russian-speaking Ukranian woman in a grey box would be no good for the test? My mind boggles at the amount of pre-testing she must have done to discover her ability.

If the ability is in fact as specific as it appears could the other boxes not contain variations on the Russian-speaking Ukranian woman theme ... then any possible noise from the target Russian-speaking Russian man would not be so important as it could be masked by the sound of the Welsh-speaking Croat androgyne in the next box along singing "Land of My Fathers" (in English)?
 
If noise is a problem then you could make them sound proof (but how to get air to the person inside?). Or you could play sounds from a tape deck that could be a man inside.

To score a pass this test would need to be done at least three times.

I suggest that the person be able to detect three people behind a wall. They be given a choice of 25 places and if they can detect which three positions the men are they pass with odds of one in 2,300 (I think!).
 
Any specification that the box has to be upright? Even someone sitting on a chair will probably shift a bit, so I think that rjh01's suggestion about tape decks (in all of the boxes) is a good one.

(Though, of course, Snow's idea of the Welsh-speaking Croat androgyne (WSCA) is terrific, I think it would be rather expensive to find someone like that. Unless you could record the WSCA and play the song, with slight delays, in all of the other boxes.)

But if the box doesn't have to be upright, perhaps the person can lay down inside. Maybe it would be easier to be still if you're prone. I know I'd be more likely to be still if I were lying down.

Does the man have to be in a /box/? What about being behind a half-box screen (three sides, or even two sides arranged in a "V" large enough to cover up a sitting person)? Does the box (or screen) have to be of any particular material? Could it be several laminated pieces of cardboard?

You could set up some cheap fabric curtains in between and at the sides to prevent the claimant from approaching at such an angle as to be able to see behind the screens.

Since the language of the man has been established to be critical, does it mean that he is going to have to talk?

(Edited to add: I am unsure as to how this claim is Paranormal, unless of course the man remains silent and still, and the claimant cannot approach the boxes at a close enough range to hear him shifting, breathing, etc.)
 
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You don't need to keep the man quiet. You only need to eliminate the possibility she can hear him.
 
We are certain that she is not simply going to shout "If you're Russian and you know it clap your hands," or something along those lines aren't we?

I will be fascinated to hear how she discovered her ability.

It is probably not relevant in Florida but I imagine a box containing a man in a warehouse in Moscow might stand out due to vapour from the occupant's breath emerging from it. During the colder part of the year anyway.
 
Could she identify him if he would simply stand on the other side of a wall? That would eliminate clues and would make the test much easier. Any hallway seems suitable.

Divide the wall into five increments of 1.5m / 5 ft, place him behind one. Have her pick the increment from the other side of the wall. Repeat the test until sample size is sufficient.
 
There's one obvious way to keep him quiet. Does the Russian man actually have to be alive?
 
guys... ye ye.. some say that every psychic convinced that he is real..
I sew program.. on Russian TV (via Internet) with this Lady performing Natalja VOROTNIKOVA in TV.. ( here it says Votonikova...though for TV she could have use not real surname) Any way.. she is fake.. the test with guy inside.. they showed similar on tv where she found guy in CAR... and he was silent... any way.. see no point in making it specifically Russian speaking... if she possibly read minds.. she can read even English who will be constantly repeating some words that will be agreed before.. even in Russian.. Have to say.. that i followed the program for some time..on tv and forum discussions.. and since when she won it last year they said that she will be going to states to participate in JREF...:) ever sinse i use to bug them and ask when,,,??:) cause I didnt see any applications from her
and now seems like she will be In the program there was 2 more people who made in to finals.. one of them 18 yo guy.. who came to me for a reading like a year before show.. and he done my reading too.. have to say.. if he is psychic than I am Marlyn Monroe.. Some how he made in finale.. so that mean the show is staged.. and they promoted them to make money later for readings.. as I herd Vorotnikova would charge after show something about 2000$ for appointment..and since Russia is big country.. and many people in trouble she was fully booked for like 6 months... Any way.. hate when people make use of others when they in troubles. Looking forward to see her tasted:)

p.s. Just now read her application... must say.. STUPID thing.. at TV she performed all possible ways that she is real ( first sign that she is fake.. u cant be good at everything.. she read amazingly well people by photo.. looked for guys in car...looked for lost person and was able to say what happened in room etc... and she chose this for application...
 
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Hi :) Pavel :) since :) you :) seem :) to :) have :) time :) to :) post :) how :) about :) updating :) the :) forum :) on :) your :) progress:) ?

In :) the :) appropriate :) thread :) of :) course :).
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Hi :) Pavel :) since :) you :) seem :) to :) have :) time :) to :) post :) how :) about :) updating :) the :) forum :) on :) your :) progress:) ?

In :) the :) appropriate :) thread :) of :) course :).
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:) sorry for smiles... i wrote it in word.. and often use smiles.. any way... as u can see reduced number of it...
No updates for now.. waiting for letter fro statistician who checking last proposed protocol..:) As soon as there is anything it will be there!
CHEERS MATE:)
 
Pavel, Thanks for the update - next posts should be in your own thread please.

Please remember (everyone) to keep posts in this thread specifically on the topic of the claim in question.
 
As near as I can tell, she wants twenty coloured boxes, 19 of them empty and one with a person in it, and wants one hour with the boxes.

So a series of say 15 tests (a maths expert needed here) where there are 20 boxes, with some where there is a man who cannot speak Russian, some where there is a man who can speak Russian, some where there is a woman who can/cannot speak Russian, and some where there are 20 empty boxes might settle this. If she gets the Russian speaking man right x times out of y tests, she passes.

I assume that she cannot talk to the boxes, or try to weigh them, or touch them, or interact with them in other ways, but the above may be a starting point for a protocol - rather time consuming though at one hour per test.

Norm
 
chillzero said:
Pavel, Thanks for the update - next posts should be in your own thread please.

Please remember (everyone) to keep posts in this thread specifically on the topic of the claim in question.
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Sorry.. and thank you.. just that he asked me here and I replyed to his post...:mglook
 
rjh01 said:
If pavel do can write posts like above, then that would be good both for the forum and for himself. Any idea how the trick is done?
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In the TV show I am sure some one told her.. so obviously if the test will be conducted in Russia they will make sure she gets hit.. through what ever candid camera or some one in room etc.. as it will be not about million of randy cause if she pass preliminary test than she will make much more in Russia.. by using it as advertising I am sure Russian TV (the channel that producing the program where she "won" will want to show it live and she will get money for it too... If test will be conducted in US.. she will bring her representatives and stuff and they will do there best to find the way to cheat:) She is not interested in Million as such and probably would not go for test just that they was stupid enough to announce it year a go... though as most of my colleagues.. they will take time to negotiate and invent something.. but lets see.. the time will kindly show us:)
 
fromdownunder said:
So a series of say 15 tests (a maths expert needed here) where there are 20 boxes, with some where there is a man who cannot speak Russian, some where there is a man who can speak Russian, some where there is a woman who can/cannot speak Russian, and some where there are 20 empty boxes might settle this. If she gets the Russian speaking man right x times out of y tests, she passes.

I assume that she cannot talk to the boxes, or try to weigh them, or touch them, or interact with them in other ways, but the above may be a starting point for a protocol - rather time consuming though at one hour per test.
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I'm not sure why you'd want to complicate things so much. Finding the person out of 20 possible boxes has a 1/20 chance. Do that three times and you're well past 1/1000. There's no need to mess around with different people in different tests, all that is needed is to identify the one person a few times. The test itself really can be as simple as that, the only real problems are with ensuring that there is no way to find the person without using paranormal abilities.

Of course, another problem is one often raised that she may not be able to do it 100% accurately. That's easily solved by having more than one person to find in each run. The exact setup would obviously depends on her claimed accuracy and the odds required to be beaten, but given that 3 hours would give a total of 60 boxes to choose from, it wouldn't be at all hard to match pretty much any claim with any odds.
 
Cuddles said:
I'm not sure why you'd want to complicate things so much. Finding the person out of 20 possible boxes has a 1/20 chance.
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My complicated method (and I agree that it is) would largely depend on exactly where she is in relation to the boxes, the actual nature of the boxes themselves, and what she is allowed to do during that one hour period.

Since the claim is that she can find a man who speaks Russian, I assume that she could not find a man who does not speak Russian, so if she did, that would be evidence that she was not accurate in her claim, and was possibly finding some way of cheating.

Norm
 
This is very easy to do if she is allowed to touch the box (or even to come within 1 foot or so) - body heat is an incredible thing, especially if it's allowed to build for one hour. I imagine that when we restrict Ms. Votonikova from approaching within, say, 1 meter of any box, she will refuse.
 
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