Nancy Pelosi's missing bible verse

I think Pelosi did mix up her Bible verses, there's nothing like that in Isaiah. Still, given that most of the time she only claimed 'Old testament' she's got plenty of biblical support for it as a paraphrase.

Genesis 1:26-28 puts mankind in charge of other life, making them mankind's responsibility. Other parts of the old testament reinforce that idea. There's several Pslams that say that everything in the world is ultimately God's. So there's a respectable basis for saying, "The bible says don't turn the world into a barren, smoggy, cesspit."

Of course the link in the OP is quite questionable as the dug up experts to condemn Pelosi for suggesting,

Environmentalists who make man subservient to the natural world actually invert the biblical view of man's relationship to the earth
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Which is a variation of a common strawman for people who don't want to deal with environmental issues.

eta: Yeah, sure enough it's a wingnut production. Ads for Coulter and a mission to counter the:
liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news."
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A Christian Sceptic said:
Where do they get their beliefs from?
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Back when I was a Christian, I got most of my Christian beliefs from what other Christians told me, especially ministers and Sunday school teachers, but also relatives and friends. I really didn't know all that clearly what the bible actually said. It wasn't until my confirmation into the Episcopal Church that I actually read large chunks of the bible. It was at that point I realized that much of what I had been told was codswhallop. Odd, isn't it, that the ritualistic teaching that was supposed to bring me to understand the mysteries of Christianity did its job a little too well.

But much of what is in the bible is (most likely) based on the oral tradition. Stories get told and retold. The four different gospels illustrate this phenomenon. They differ in many details. It is impossible to say what reallly happened. It should not be surprising that people who learn about Christianity by being told about it wind up with some odd notions about what the bible really says.
 
Well, keeping in line with Nancy, I must say that my favorite bible quote is "Who Farted?"
 
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A Christian Sceptic said:
You said most Christians don't get their beliefs from the mainstream bibles.

What versions of the bible do they get their beliefs from?
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They don't get them from Bibles at all. They get them from a variety of sources:

preachers

TV preachers

The "Left Behind" series

The film "The Ten Commandments"

The film "The Omen" (original, not the remake)
 
Darat said:
Is this really such a contentious point for you?
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Contentious? I think not. Let me explain the point CS is making, one that I thought was obvious, but from your responses perhaps was not so.

When someone says that "most people don't drive 'blue' cars" the idea put forth is that they drive other colors of cars. However, there is an alternative idea that most people do not drive cars at all, instead, ride the bus, or walk. Avoiding the adjective here would clear it up, by just saying that "most people don't drive cars."

Similarly, when you say that "most Christians don't get their beliefs from any of the more mainstream bibles." You are introducing the idea that there are alternative bibles being used here. This isn't semantics. It is the clear conveyance of ideas that should be adhered to if you are trying to make a point. Just say that most people don't get their belief from the bible, if that is the case.

Is it the case though? Every sermon and religious ceremony I have ever gone to involving the church had readings from the bible, and I would assume that people's religious beliefs come from that.

Let's try this then. What religious beliefs do 'most' christians have that don't come from the bible?

Darat said:
Even to narrow the word "belief" to just the religious beliefs of people who say they are "Christians" my statement should still have been one of those to be frank blatantly obvious ones - sort of like saying "most people have noses". Personally it's not something that I tend to demand evidence for since I tend to take those statements as being as obvious as the nose on your face!
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There is evidence that most people have noses. Look around. It isn't that you aren't demanding the evidence, you already have it.
 
So, right-wing Christians are filled with Christ-like hatred for Democrats... what else is new?
 
What bothers me a little more is that she has made this mistake before but is immune the criticisms or corrections. If she was running for election it would be like Obama's true but unfortunate comment about the 'little towns' - it smacks of elitism and a life well protected.

Her sentiment is not completely off the wall though, the theme is more commonly heard in Mormonism or Islam than Christianity. It is probably from a sermon she heard somewhere, maybe from late Isaiah:
6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the
chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the
oppressed free and break every yoke?

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide
the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked,
to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh
and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your
healing will quickly appear...
Isa 58
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A Christian Sceptic said:
Where do they get their beliefs from?
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Seriously? Historically, literacy has not been a requirement for belief, has it? Seems to me it was even a radical idea to print the bible in the local language rather than Latin. Do parents wait until their children can read the bible for themselves before speaking with them about such matters?

Nonseriously... Fox news, maybe? Or perhaps...
 
A Christian Sceptic said:
Where do they get their beliefs from?
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Didn't you fail to answer this yourself in another very loooong thread?

I haven't met every christian but ...

At the very best their beliefs are derived from parts of a book/novel they consider holy.

Those I have met, heard and read about extensively cherry-pick from a bible, just make it up or haven't a clue. (I had another thread where a christian complained about me talking about a bible when I was discussing Achilles).

It is a matter of record that, specifically, some Catholics have stated that reading a bible is not encouraged by their church. The majority of christians are Catholic

I have also heard so many Lies for Jesus that just making it up seems quite common.

Few of the different versions of a bible totally agree and the book itself is a made-up compilation of oral traditional stories and blatant plagiarism, varies in size and content and is internally inconsistent.

Try these questions on your christian friends and see how well they do. They cover the key elements of a NT and an OT; Creation, the flood, Jesus' birth, death and resurrection. All probably important to your average christian.

  1. How many versions of the creation of Adam and Eve are there in Genesis?
  2. How many of each kind of animals did Noah take onto the Arc?
  3. How did Mary, mother of Jesus travel to Bethlehem and where did she stay?
  4. What were Jesus' last words on the cross?
  5. Where did Jesus reveal himself to the disciples after resurrection and how many disciples were present?
Assuming you know the answers, you decide whether they get their belief from a bible, from the pulpit or somewhere else. Let us know (as if).
Answers for the curious:
  1. Seven
  2. 1,623
  3. Camel. Brothel.
  4. Aaaaa-uuuurgh!
  5. Jeruselem market place. All forteen.
See. I can make up stuff too. Do your own bloody research. Cheater!

My question for you is - What is the bible and which one is correct and complete?

When you have given me a clear definition of the bible I will be able to answer your question?

.




ETA: Maybe Chick has the answer:

There are two kinds of churches: those that left their founding doctrines and those that stuck to them. There are also two kinds of Bibles: those that follow corrupt and perverted Alexandrian texts and/or Roman Catholic doctrine, and those that follow the line of preservation through godly and persecuted Christian brethren.
The choice is obvious.
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Source

Is Nancy "corrupt and perverted"?

:D
 
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joobz said:
Well, keeping in line with Nancy, I must say that my favorite bible quote is "Who Farted?"
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Recalls Proverbs 11:29 --

He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind:

--

and the fool shall be servant to the wise of heart. --

so, if you don't have a dog, blame it on the dumb guy.
 
Careyp74 said:
Contentious? I think not. Let me explain the point CS is making, one that I thought was obvious, but from your responses perhaps was not so.

When someone says that "most people don't drive 'blue' cars" the idea put forth is that they drive other colors of cars. However, there is an alternative idea that most people do not drive cars at all, instead, ride the bus, or walk. Avoiding the adjective here would clear it up, by just saying that "most people don't drive cars."

Similarly, when you say that "most Christians don't get their beliefs from any of the more mainstream bibles." You are introducing the idea that there are alternative bibles being used here. This isn't semantics. It is the clear conveyance of ideas that should be adhered to if you are trying to make a point. Just say that most people don't get their belief from the bible, if that is the case.

...snip...
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Thanks for the advice on how to convey what I meant however if I dropped the word "mainstream" I would not have been saying what I wanted to say.

Careyp74 said:
...snip...

There is evidence that most people have noses. Look around. It isn't that you aren't demanding the evidence, you already have it.
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Which was exactly my point.
 
H3LL said:
  1. How many versions of the creation of Adam and Eve are there in Genesis?
  2. How many of each kind of animals did Noah take onto the Arc?
  3. How did Mary, mother of Jesus travel to Bethlehem and where did she stay?
  4. What were Jesus' last words on the cross?
  5. Where did Jesus reveal himself to the disciples after resurrection and how many disciples were present?

Assuming you know the answers, you decide whether they get their belief from a bible, from the pulpit or somewhere else. Let us know (as if).
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Ooh, lemmie try; no cheating:

1. Two. (source: KJV Bible)

2. Not sure, but it wasn't just pairs. I think certain animals were brought on by twos, and others by fives. (source: think I read it here)

3. She went on her ass all the way, and stayed in the stable of an inn. (multiple sources, including the bible and all those sappy Xmas pageants)

4. "It is finished." (bible)

5. The women met him first, at the tomb. A few of the disciples met him on the road to one disciple's house. Judas was not there. I don't think all of them were there...maybe 5 of them? Thomas was there; he stuck his hands in the wounds to prove it to himself, the doubter. (bible and sermons)


How'd I do?
 
slingblade said:
How'd I do?
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Very good. You came up with answers.

They weren't correct but they were nice answers. That's usually enough.

Next stage is putting money on a plate .. I don't have a plate but I take PayPal

;)

.
 
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A Christian Sceptic said:
Where do they get their beliefs from?
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Their parents, community and, primarily, their preachers (it's so much easier than reading it and trying to interpret what is said (especially given the large number of inconsistencies) themselves.

Yes, in my misspent youth I actually read the bible, and several eastern religious texts. Missed the koran, but hey, who's counting.:)
 
Darat, in answering CS's question of which bible, you said "no bible" so what was it you were trying to say with the mainstream part?

Mercutio, does everyone have to know how to read to get their beliefs from the bible? I know if you wanted to take them directly from there, you would have to, but isn't it also the same if you go to church and learn the bible lessons and hold the churches beliefs?

Maybe the argument is whether or not churches teach belief from the (any) bible. Like H3ll said, there are those that have said that the church doesn't want them to read the bible. I have heard this before, but i think it could be propaganda. What is the documents that you speak of?
 
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