Name the 5 most important ideas in philosophy.

But there is no meaning to survival, so it follows that a philosophy wouldn't provide advantage in meaning only for the reason that it provides advantage in survival.

But who says there is no meaning in survival? Consider, for a moment, that any biological creature's primary drive is survival of species - so individual survival contributes meaningfully to survival of species.

'Meaning' is what you make of it.

Ultimately, however, if there is, as you assert, 'no meaning to survival', then meaning, itself, is meaningless.

;)
 
1. dont eat yellow snow

thats all i can think of at the moment
 
But who says there is no meaning in survival? Consider, for a moment, that any biological creature's primary drive is survival of species - so individual survival contributes meaningfully to survival of species.
If you develop a dependency for drugs, does that mean that drugs have profound "meaning"? The idea of "meaning" seems to operate at a much deeper level than these superficial behaviors: more at the level of what feels "good" and "bad." I say this because we look at addictive behaviors such drug use as being a problem. The abuser is compelled to engage in their addictive behaviors no matter how bad those behaviors feel, but since they feel bad, we consider them bad and disorders which operate in a very perfunctory way. Being compelled to survive can also be viewed as an addictive behavior; whether or not it ultimately makes you feel better will determine its meaningfulness to you. The despair of existence in a person with suicidal tendencies will override their typical drives and cause them to come to the conclusion that survival is worthless. What I'm really trying to say is that happiness and sadness more consistently describe meaning than behaviors that are merely addictive, but not necessarily "good." When you try to define "meaning" in terms of these behaviors, you run the risk of committing the naturalistic fallacy. If you rely on basic emotions of happiness and sadness, then you don't as these basic emotions are the true arbiters of "meaning."
'Meaning' is what you make of it.
Yep, but our decisions of what to make of it are primarily determined by our basic feelings of good and bad.
Ultimately, however, if there is, as you assert, 'no meaning to survival', then meaning, itself, is meaningless.
That's only presuming that in all potential contingencies, survival trumps everything else in its profundity. I'd say that's circular reasoning.

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Eh, I can't make heads or tails out of what you're saying.

Without survival, there's no happiness or sadness. Without survival, there's no meaning whatsoever. Ultimately, no matter what, survival DOES trump everything else in its profundity - for without survival, nothing else exists.

:dragon:
 
Eh, I can't make heads or tails out of what you're saying.

Without survival, there's no happiness or sadness. Without survival, there's no meaning whatsoever. Ultimately, no matter what, survival DOES trump everything else in its profundity - for without survival, nothing else exists.

:dragon:
Meaningfulness disappears when one dies, not when they give up on survival. A lack of a drive to survive will often times lead to a person's premature death, but death isn't an epiphenomenon of a lack of a drive to survive. A person could be kept alive against their will. In that case, there would be a drive to die altogether and, consequently, a valuing of death. The prospect of death would trump the prospect of survival in its profundity.
 
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Eh, I can't make heads or tails out of what you're saying.

Without survival, there's no happiness or sadness. Without survival, there's no meaning whatsoever. Ultimately, no matter what, survival DOES trump everything else in its profundity - for without survival, nothing else exists.

:dragon:
Yes, but.
You're assuming all else being equal.
If the only meaning in life is survival then one could kept unconscious and unthinking for fifty years and have a far more meaningful life than someone who lived happily for thirty.
If anything in life has meaning, survival allows us to find those meaningful things. But survival itself is not what's meaningful.

And if this is true, then I think we get to the point Batman made about happiness trumping survival. Say you have a choice between five years of extremely meaningful existence (based on whatever in life you find meaningful) and ten years stuck in an ice cave feeding ice cream to the abominable snowman. Say you know the abominable snowman is a jerk. After both of these periods you will die.
The former seems to me to be the more meaningful life, in spite of the fact that you will not survive as long.

Survival is a means to the ends, but is not the ends itself.

That is, if there is such a thing as meaning. I take there to be one, and view it as my own to determine.
 
But who says there is no meaning in survival? Consider, for a moment, that any biological creature's primary drive is survival of species - so individual survival contributes meaningfully to survival of species.
Well, there are two problems I see with this. First, just because there is a biological drive to something doesn't mean that's meaningful in a philosophical sense. Of course, I don't know that anything is meaningful, and I agree with your statement that we each create our own meaning.

Second, a biological creature's primary drive is not survival of it's species. They could care less. Evolution doesn't cause this, unless you think group selection is a major driving force (maybe it has some effects, but if so they are mostly swamped by individual level or gene level selective pressures). Any creature born with a propensity to behavior that was to the good of the species but detrimental to itself would soon be taken advantage of by more selfish individuals, and their genes would be the ones to make it to the next generation.
This doesn't mean altruism doesn't evolve. Just that it does so for reasons that aren't related to the good of the species.

Of course group selection might play some role in evolution, but a relatively minor one, and never at the sake of the selfish interests of individual genes.
 
I see... excellent points.

Let me therefore amend my prior statement:

1. No matter what you think you know, you still need food, water, shelter, sleep, a place to relieve yourself that won't contaminate any of the prior four, safety, and a satisfactory quality of life. If your philosophy doesn't help you acquire these things, that philosophy is meaningless.

There is no 2-5.

There - survival plus satisfaction.

In spite of the side-track, though, I think what I was getting at was that some philosophy - for example, ideas of solipsism or acosmism - is ultimately pointless, when we consider that these ideas give no advantage in the survival equation - nor, indeed, in the quality of life equation. As pointed out several times to Darren, unless the acosmist can supercede the apparent physical world, 'knowing' that the physical world is 'unreal' is pointless and meaningless.

Anyway, language being one of my many weak points, I thank you both (Battijer and Robobobobomamarama) for clarifying and challenging the position I believed that I held.

:D :dragon:

(I have to keep using the dragon icon or Darat will think I don't appreciate it. Or was it someone else who added that? Uh-oh, memory failing...)
 
What in your opinion are the 5 most significant, valuable and impacting concepts in philosophy 1. to philosophers and 2. to the general lay public -- in order of importance?
I'm going to change the parameters a little since I can't answer the question. Instead, I'm going to list what I think are the most significant questions within philosophy, in no particular order.
  1. What is the nature of nature/reality?
  2. What is the nature of man and mankind?
  3. What is the nature of God/gods?
  4. What is the proper formation of reason and logic?
  5. What are the relationships between all of these things?
Arguably, 1 and 3 are closely interdependent, but there is still much that can be said about the one without going into the other.
 
2) Godel proves that not only can no consistent mathematical system be complete, but that no consistent system can prove its own consistency.

No, Gödel didn't prove that.

You have to add "suffciently expressive" there.

For example, propositional logic has a great number of different proof systems that are both consistent and complete.
 
1. 80% of everything is crap. Theodore Sturgeon

2. Life is what happens while you're making other plans. John Lennon

3. Just showing up is 90 % of life. Bob Dillon

4. The only things worth believing in are Death and Sex, and Death doesn't make you nauseous. Woody Allen

5. Life is like a sewer; you only get out of it what you put into it. Beady
 
1. logic
2. critical thought
3. justice/morality
4. the scientific method
5. economic theory

Sadly, I don't think the layman understands much of this, or values any of it. But I don't care what other people think, if their opinions are based on ignorance.
 
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No, Gödel didn't prove that.

You have to add "suffciently expressive" there.

For example, propositional logic has a great number of different proof systems that are both consistent and complete.
Yes, I always forget to specific that the system must be sufficiently powerful for arithmetic. Thanks, LW.
 

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