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Naked Islam...

headscratcher4

Philosopher
headscratcher4
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
7,776
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1688285,00.html?gusrc=rss


"...It began when Dr Rashad Khalil, an expert on Islamic law from al-Azhar university in Cairo warned that being completely naked during intercourse invalidates a marriage. His ruling was promptly dismissed by other scholars, including one who argued that "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" should be permitted.

Another religious scholar suggested it was OK for married couples to see each other naked as long as they don't look at the genitals. To avoid problems in that area, he recommended having sex under a blanket..."

Wow..good times. Its a religon and a party. I assume this isn't the way it works with the 70 virgins in the heavenly garden that martyrs aspire to...
 
Actually, considering we're talking about spouses only here, I think you must admit that's pretty much where you wind up anyway, regardless of religion. ;)

Besides, how long do you think 70 virgins will last you when you're talking about eternity? Any "martyr" deserves what he gets, if for no other reason than the sheer uncritical thought required to make 70 virgins sound like a good value.
 
Jocko said:
Actually, considering we're talking about spouses only here, I think you must admit that's pretty much where you wind up anyway, regardless of religion. ;)

Besides, how long do you think 70 virgins will last you when you're talking about eternity? Any "martyr" deserves what he gets, if for no other reason than the sheer uncritical thought required to make 70 virgins sound like a good value.
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Maybe only with experience, after the first 70 or so, does it really get to be interesting...Also, can't help being reminded after reading this of the old joke...the punchline is "It leads to dancing..."
 
I can now kind of understand why there is a small segment of the strict Islamic faithful that look forward to blowing themselves up.

Nevermind the no alcohol thing!
 
Why is sex such an evil thing? Where would we be in a generation or 2 if we gave it up?

Charlie (if it feels good it must be evil) Monoxide
 
Wow! Open and frank discussions about sex. Way better than the "stick-your-head-in-the-sand" approach I'm used to seeing in the Western world.
 
And, apparently, you can stick your head a lot of places as long as you moderate your physical responses...
 
kalen said:
Wow! Open and frank discussions about sex. Way better than the "stick-your-head-in-the-sand" approach I'm used to seeing in the Western world.
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Yes, it's practically impossible to find images, descriptions, dicussions, debates, arguments, bizarre examples of, and otherwise locate ANY evidence of sex in the western world. ;)
 
Jocko said:
Yes, it's practically impossible to find images, descriptions, dicussions, debates, arguments, bizarre examples of, and otherwise locate ANY evidence of sex in the western world. ;)
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Yeah, when I'm looking for a good time, the FIRST place I consider is Rabat or Islamabad--so much more open and casual about sex than that uptight New York or Amsterdam...

More seriously, the reason for this discussion is actually one of the reason the Muslim world is backwards. It is not an "open and frank discussion about sex". It is a religious cleric demanding the power to determine what people will do in the bedroom, because in Islam that, too--like anything else--is not up to the individual, but up to the religious leader to decide.
 
kalen said:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/teensexualhealth/fact-abstinence-education.xml
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Actually, that was pretty interesting. All the furor over abstince-only ed makes it sound like it's a new thing. But I remember seeing some pretty strange posters hanging up in my junior high, and that was way back in 1988. They all urged abstinence, but in such a way that they kinda backfired. One in particular, depicted sexy teenagers with padlocked chains wrapped around their naughty bits (they were wearing clothes underneath, I hasten to add). The posters read "Not until I'm married", but the image was pretty much an invitation to explore bondage. It was a pretty good example of the naivete of the abstinence-only crowd.
 
Jocko said:
Congratulations once again, Kalen. You found a website that ISN'T devoted to sex. That's no small feat. Wanna see about 10 billion that are?
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OK. Sure. How many of those websites are run by Christian fundamentalist types?

But I think you've missed my point. But don't fret, I understand that checking out 10 billion internet porn sites is very distracting.

Now excuse me while I go register fundiesintheirundies.com.
 
I clicked on this thread thinking it was about that nude beach in Dubai. Boy, was I disapointed. :(
 
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TragicMonkey said:
Actually, that was pretty interesting. All the furor over abstince-only ed makes it sound like it's a new thing. But I remember seeing some pretty strange posters hanging up in my junior high, and that was way back in 1988. They all urged abstinence, but in such a way that they kinda backfired. One in particular, depicted sexy teenagers with padlocked chains wrapped around their naughty bits (they were wearing clothes underneath, I hasten to add). The posters read "Not until I'm married", but the image was pretty much an invitation to explore bondage. It was a pretty good example of the naivete of the abstinence-only crowd.
Click to expand...


Oooh, I want one of those posters!!
 
Jocko said:
Congratulations once again, Kalen. You found a website that ISN'T devoted to sex. That's no small feat. Wanna see about 10 billion that are?
Click to expand...

Could be tricky even the letter a only racks up about 8 billion
 
Getting the thread (somewhat) back on track, I think I have a different take on things.

I actually think that in general, it speaks well of a religion that its principles don't stop at the bedroom door. While I disagree with the specific "ruling" in the OP, it reflects the attitude that timeless principles - upon which religion is said to rest - are also unlimited by geography. We would expect any religion worth its salt to promote consistently moral behavior no matter where the adherent happens to be. In this case, Islam views modesty as a cardinal moral principle (as do other belief systems), and, according to the scholars quoted in the OP, that it trumps whatever "consenting adults" might do to/with one another. For the people who care about upholding those principles the ruling makes a difference; for the rest of us - as well as for the adherents of the opposing ruling cited above - it should be irrelevant.
 
From the Hadiths of Abu Dawud, Book 11, Article 2159: "The fact is that this clan of the Ansar, who were idolaters, lived in the company of the Jews who were the people of the Book. They (the Ansar) accepted their superiority over themselves in respect of knowledge, and they followed most of their actions. The people of the Book (i.e. the Jews) used to have intercourse with their women on one side alone (i.e. lying on their backs). This was the most concealing position for (the vagina of) the women. This clan of the Ansar adopted this practice from them. But this tribe of the Quraysh used to uncover their women completely, and seek pleasure with them from in front and behind and laying them on their backs.

When the muhajirun (the immigrants) came to Medina, a man married a woman of the Ansar. He began to do the same kind of action with her, but she disliked it, and said to him: We were approached on one side (i.e. lying on the back); do it so, otherwise keep away from me. This matter of theirs spread widely, and it reached the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).

So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur'anic verse: "Your wives are a tilth to you, so come to your tilth however you will," i.e. from in front, from behind or lying on the back. "

Islam validates doggy style! You heard it here first!
 
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