Myths in the Making ...

[Beady]

Star Wars can be seen as mythic, especially by those who follow Jungian archetypes as a form of mythology.

Merc, anything can be seen as mythic by somebody, especially if you're willing to split hairs.

Characters such as The Orphan Hero (Luke, Harry), The Plucky Heroine (Leia, Hermione), The Friendly Monster (Chewbacca, Hagrid), The Shadow (Darth Vader, Voldemort), The Wise Old Man (Obi-Wan, Dumbledore), The Faithful Friend (Han, Ron), and others are, according to Jung, mythological figures.

Precisely. There are a finite number of character types, especially heroes, in fiction, and enough of the major types have been classed as mythic or mythological by the "intellectuals" that virtually everything can be included, if you so desire. If you include everything in a class, then that class is meaningless and the distinction might as well not be made.

Star Wars simply, IMHO, has not attained the stature of mythology. It has only superficially affected our culture, and that effect may well die out a generation or so after Lucas stops cranking out episodes and action figures. It certainly does not reflect the culture that produced it. Star Wars is pure escapist fare, with all the same cultural significance as the Harlequin Romance imprimature. If its characters really are archtypes, then all that means is that Lucas copied standard character types the way he copied the story, itself.

And, as noted, Star Wars has absolutely nothing to do with Science. Within the context of the OP, the introduction of Star Wars into the thread is merely a red herring.

 

[Beady]

If you are all that exists, then my voice is part of the parameters of your inner self, and as such should be heeded just as much as you heed that voice which you "recognize" as your own. To do otherwise would be irrational.

My god, but that's good!

 

[Mercutio]

If its characters really are archtypes, then all that means is that Lucas copied standard character types the way he copied the story, itself.

Agreed completely. That was (supposed to be) my point; you just made it more succinctly.

And, as noted, Star Wars has absolutely nothing to do with Science. Within the context of the OP, the introduction of Star Wars into the thread is merely a red herring.

I would not give Iacchus that much credit. Why posit a red herring, when it could merely be a stab in the dark?

 

[Beady]

I would not give Iacchus that much credit. Why posit a red herring, when it could merely be a stab in the dark?

The effect is the same as a red herring, no matter its true character or purpose. If you don't know the cause of the disease, all you can do effectively is treat the symptom.

 

[Cleopatra]

You are out of your league, Iacchus. Cleo is about 6 levels deeper than you on this. Cleo, I remember you started a thread on your conversations about myth and psychology. This was at the beginning of the time you were very busy with your trial and new business venture, so I must ask whether you ever checked for a response. I wanted to hear your reaction to it before I tried anything further.

Huh-oh. I forgot that and you know it interests me tremendously. The reason why I am so captivated by this question is that I don't believe that ancient people that they " didn't know that well" ( allow me to play with the Greek word for Science that means the solid knowledge,something that has been proven right) or at least as " well as we know certain things" had in all wrong. I mean they have captured something.

On the other hand I meet people that are well read, deep into the Humanities, tad disgusted by the lack of communication and coldness of our days(hasn't been always like that for the sensitive souls?) of our days that tend to blame it on "Science". I am not talking about believers but about people who don't believe anything that it served to them and yet they tend to blame "Sciences" for the lack of empathy and communication.

Actually this is the reason I enjoy discussing with Dennis although my friends rarely troll in our discussions the way Iacchus does. I take it as a training.

Anyway, I have studided Law and Humanities and some people expressed their disappointment for my trying to learn more about Mathematics and Science. Funny because I find a lot of poetry in both. That's why I am very much interested in every discussion that brings Science and Mythology together. I don't see the dichotomy and I believe that if people believe that there is any relation between them we would have a Myth about a certain lady that was called Science, probably was seduced with Zeus or was raped by Zeus and Athena (---->in the form of Metis) together and gave birth to her her kids,mathematics, physics, astronomy etc.

This is what I am trying to explain to Iacchus.You cannot just make reference to mythology without demonstrating with clarity the link you see along with your interpretation. Mythology is not just fairy tales.

So, Iacchus, unless you use the word " mythology" rhetorically if you believe that Science is part of human's mythology you have 1. To show us the link and 2. Provide an explanation.

Iacchus:Are you saying it's not a myth? I'm saying that since Science is relatively new, that these older Mythical Circles -- or, whatever it is you're referring to here? -- which, predate Science, don't recognize it as such.

Interestingly, Greek Myths take their form --in terms of literature-- in the beginning of 6th ce when Sciences start to emerge too!That means at least 50 years after the celebration of the Olympic Games and the first attemps to build societies that will function with laws that will spring from the people for the people.

The little dolphin that appears in your avatar Iacchus and symbolizes the free spirit that travels the oceans( the world) and the worship of the poetry and music ( dolphins were related to Apollo) of Nature is nothing but a different expression of the same minds that grasped the idea that apart from poetry there must be a method to explain how the world functions the same way that there is a method in expressing your artistic thoughts and this method is called meter in poetry. How do you explain the existence of a method in the artistic expression BTW?

There is no dichotomy.I am sorry.

 

[Iacchus]

Hardy har har me buckos! ... And look at what Dionysus did to those who tried to "pirate" his thread ... I mean ship ...

 

[Cleopatra]

LOL. Scary!

Philosophy can put you in real troubles indeed.

 

[Iacchus]

Star Wars is not a myth, it is just a story, and in fact a fantasy story. It was also certainly not a story about "science" or that used "science" in the telling.

It was portrayed allegorically, the way a myth is portrayed. While at the same time, contained all the elements of science fiction, with its reliance on technology as a backdrop.

 

[Jesus]

It was portrayed allegorically, the way a myth is portrayed. While at the same time, contained all the elements of science fiction, with its reliance on technology as a backdrop.

Reliance on technology? You should instead say fictional technology, because as I recall, we don't have lightsabers or large starships with artificial gravity that can come out of light speed with seemingly no inertia.

Your earlier comments in this thread, coupled with your other posts elsewhere, suggest that your current use of of the word "myth" to describe science is indicative of your belief that science is bunk. If I am wrong about this, please correct me.

If I am correct in guessing this, then answer me two questions, one of which was already asked in this thread and ignored by you: 1) What is science? 2) If you ever discovered that you were seriously ill, would you go to a hospital and receive care?

 

[Taffer]

It was portrayed allegorically, the way a myth is portrayed. While at the same time, contained all the elements of science fiction, with its reliance on technology as a backdrop.

Starwars was not science fiction. It gave no explanation (at least, no real explanation) to how said technology works, and said technology was akin to 'magic'. It was a space opera. Get your definitions straight.

Also, if you claim Starwars was a myth, then obvious so was the Matrix, Lord of the Rings and Spongebob Squarepants The Movie! In fact, anything fictional at all must be a myth as well! Seems like a pointless definition to me .

 

[Iacchus]

Try using your imagination for a change. You might actually learn something.

 

[Taffer]

Try using logic for a change. You might actually learn something.

 

[Iacchus]

And you don't know ◊◊◊◊ ...

 

[Beady]

And you don't know ◊◊◊◊ ...

Well, so much for this thread.

 

[Iacchus]

Well, so much for this thread.

Hardy har har to you too, jack@ss ...

 

[Iacchus]

Still, as far as I know there is no such a thing as the Myth of Science in any mythical circle.

This must put you into thoughts...

Really, all I'm saying here is that it's all in our minds. In which case it puts everything on the same mythological standing, even science. Now I'm not trying to invalidate science by calling it a myth, just trying to show that it cannot be falsified, since the only way it can be entertained, is by means of the mind.

And guess what, this is the same fertile soil, with all their phsychological truth -- or, science if you will -- that the myths of old begin to unfold.

 

[Iacchus]

The world is how it is, regardless of how we perceive it.

Oh really. And how is that?

I am who I am, regardless of what I believe.

Oh really. And how is that?

How can you falsify a fsct? If it's a fact, then it's not false by definition, no?

Oh really. And which "facts" are those?

The effects of my consciousness (small and petty as they are) will remain a while (like ripples on the the surface of a pond from a thrown stone). Sooner rather than later, they will be gone. So?

As I say, you are a legend in your own mind.

My misconceptions may be different from yours - couldn't you learn from my mistakes as well as your own?

G

Really? This implies that at least one of knows the difference between right and wrong. How is that?

 

[Jesus]

Really, all I'm saying here is that it's all in our minds. In which case it puts everything on the same mythological standing, even science. Now I'm not trying to invalidate science by calling it a myth, just trying to show that it cannot be falsified, since the only way it can be entertained, is by means of the mind.

And guess what, this is the same fertile soil, with all their phsychological truth -- or, science if you will -- that the myths of old begin to unfold.

Thanks for answering my other questions, by the way.

Anyway, it's all in our minds? Where is your evidence for this? If people had radically different, verifiable experiences from each other every day, then maybe you could say reality is in our minds.

However, when I go outside, I see the sun and feel its heat. So does my roommate, and so do my neighbors, and so do people in other parts of the world I've never met. If I walk off of the ledge of a tall building, gravity takes over and I fall. If my neighbors do the same thing, they fall. So do people in other parts of the world I've never met.

There are physical laws that are clearly not subjective, because they are testable by anyone. Gravity affects everyone else the same as it does me. The sun is there whether or not I want delude myself into thinking it's not.

 

[Iacchus]

Thanks for answering my other questions, by the way.

I was just about to. I was going to ask you find the need to be so "anal?"

Anyway, it's all in our minds? Where is your evidence for this? If people had radically different, verifiable experiences from each other every day, then maybe you could say reality is in our minds.

However, when I go outside, I see the sun and feel its heat. So does my roommate, and so do my neighbors, and so do people in other parts of the world I've never met. If I walk off of the ledge of a tall building, gravity takes over and I fall. If my neighbors do the same thing, they fall. So do people in other parts of the world I've never met.

There are physical laws that are clearly not subjective, because they are testable by anyone. Gravity affects everyone else the same as it does me. The sun is there whether or not I want delude myself into thinking it's not.

Yes, but what does your spirit tell you?

 

[Iacchus]

As I understand it... a myth is simply a story or explanation which has been proven untrue - or which is widely understood to be untrue. As such, science is by no means a myth.

Yet it all begins with -- and ends with -- the mind. Even you! ...