my true ghost story

[ungoliant]

Re: Re: my true ghost story

Another wild stab in the dark - do you know he did this because you heard his shuffling footsteps every night? Could the noise have had another source all along, but you assumed it was your dad because it sounded like shuffling footsteps?

my dad was an unapologetic shuffler. he almost always walked with the shuffling at home, night and day. it was a noise that i can not think i would easily mistake.

 

[roitrieux]

Ah to be young, dumb, and drunk...

Sorry kids, that isn't Barbara at all... Damn you white people all look alike!

 

[ungoliant]

(snip)...the lights had no affect on the steps. usually, when i would get up and start moving towards the switch they would suddenly stop. i never made it to the switch before they stopped.

I wonder how accurate your recall is after all this time?

Note that first you say "usually the steps would stop..", but then add " I never made it to the switch before they stopped." ( My emphasis.)

There is some inconsistency here.

Perhaps your weight on the floorboards restricted the actual cause of the sound, which may have been thermal contraction?

One reason you heard the sound after the death may have been the same reason I heard the vibration when alone in the house- simply that it was quieter than usual. The usual routine was broken.

i remember this quite well. i have always had an exceptional memory and have my diary from that year that i have kept as a momento from the last summer with my dad. having checked it many times, i can assure you that my memory is very consistent with what i wrote then.

as for my use of 'usually' and 'never', there is no fruedian slip i can think of other than a writer's impulse to vary word usage. in any event, 'never' is the appropriate word. i never was able to get to the doorway, where the light switch was located, before the footsteps would stop.

also, there were no floorboards. the whole house was, and is, done in marble tile.

the usual routine was most certainly broken. was it more quiet? i can't recall nor did i seem to notice then.

 

[ungoliant]

One explanation could be that normally the house was full of noise and that you rarely spent much time lying awake (or sitting quietly). Given the circumstances I would be very surprised if the house was not a whole lot quieter than normal and that you and your siblings were not sleeping terribly well. Therefore you were in a position to hear sounds that you would not normally notice due to there being less background noise to drown them out and a longer period when you would be aware of them.

a possibility.

however, the first time it occured was as soon as i was lying down. i probably would have nodded off fairly quickly. after that, i went to bed wide awake with fear, unable to sleep.

but i am not sure if the house was in any measure quieter.

 

[ungoliant]

Why do most living people wander around during the day and sleep at night, and yet most dead people never appear during the day and spend all night pacing around?

Its something I never understood

yeah, they want to keep us from sleeping! don't they know we have stuff to do during the day?

 

[MRC_Hans]

We had another person, some time ago, posting about how he had heard his cat jump from a bed upstairs and patter down the staircase (or something like that). Only the sound continued after the cat died!

I have had a similar experience about a sound I attributed to a cat, but which continued after the cat had gone. In my present house, somebody throws a pepple at the window sometimes during the evening (or so it sounds - there is no pepple).

All houses make sounds, but we often don't recognize them as sounds of the house. Maybe your house in sicily sounded like your father, but you never noticed or interpreted the sound that way till you came and stayed there after his death. Maybe some of the times you thought you heard your father, it was really the house.

That does not explain the sound stopping when you got up, except certain sounds are better heard when you lie down.

Another explanation could be an animal; crickets make a shuffling sound. Gekkos might on certain surfaces. An animal might freeze when somebody moved, and a small animal might not be noticed, or maybe you noticed it but ignored it as a common sight.

Last time I was on Malta, we had a gekko in the house. It would walk across the walls when we stood still, but as soon as we moved, it froze, and you could barely spot it, even knowing were it was. I did not hear it, but that might depend on the type of surface. It moved in short bursts, froze for a second, then another burst. IF it had made a sound, it would probably have been a shuffling sound.

Hans

 

[ungoliant]

Re: Freud?

I grew up in a little rural farming town in the south (US). As I read this thread, about all I can think of is how most kids I knew growing up would probably (still to this day) just say "wow!" if this story where relayed to them, believing every word. I suppose this is true of everywhere though.

I understand that ungoliant is seeking resolve for this mystery, but the bottom line is the best you could ever hope for is a logical explanation, 18 years after the fact. Based on perfectly obvious sound origins (that may not be so obvious at first) as I'm sure you've experienced throughout life, the closest thing you can imagine is as close as you're going to get. I swear I'm not trying to be a dick, but the way a hormonal 16 year old, and the way a logical 34 year old relate to the world around them are two different ideas. There are a variety of bazaar incidents that occurred in my youth that don't seem so bazaar to me now in my 40's. By basing my life's experience and applying those resolves to the bazaar stuff that happened 20+ years ago (in as much as I can accurately remember them mind you) I come to a satisfactory resolve.

We all here at JREF could offer you a list of perfectly logical explanations, but we were not there (18 years ago). I'm sure in your life there are plenty of odd noises that you identified instantly so you forgot about them equally as instantly. Unless you are willing to go back to this house and "do the math" this is the best you can expect.

And now for you enjoyment, I offer you this shot of Jenna and Barbara Bush wrestling at some silver-spoon beer bash...

so you are saying that i may never know what i experienced in that time? well, i know that.

yes, you here can offer logical explanations. that is what i am asking for. maybe something somebody says will jar something in my subconscious, something i can use to put two and two together.

if you don't want to help, that's fine.

but are you suggesting that because of the way your experiences worked out for you that i should just stop asking for help from others?

 

[ungoliant]

All houses make sounds, but we often don't recognize them as sounds of the house. Maybe your house in sicily sounded like your father, but you never noticed or interpreted the sound that way till you came and stayed there after his death. Maybe some of the times you thought you heard your father, it was really the house.

That does not explain the sound stopping when you got up, except certain sounds are better heard when you lie down.

Another explanation could be an animal; crickets make a shuffling sound. Gekkos might on certain surfaces. An animal might freeze when somebody moved, and a small animal might not be noticed, or maybe you noticed it but ignored it as a common sight.
Hans

thanks, Hans. really good point that has crossed my mind. maybe it was just the house sounds that we never noticed before.

i have to say that normal house sounds, something echoed from outside, or an animal are my leading theories.

could an echo seem to move around the house in a more or less straight path, then seem to stay put in one place for a while?

that explanation, while probably closer to the truth than a 'ghost', i am afraid will never settle it with my siblings. i don't think anything ever will. they always say, "it sounded exactly like dad's footsteps," and "it started the night he died!"

sometimes i gotta laugh and say, "why didn't these auditory anomalies happen one night earlier?!"

 

[chillzero]

however, the first time it occured was as soon as i was lying down. i probably would have nodded off fairly quickly. after that, i went to bed wide awake with fear, unable to sleep.

but i am not sure if the house was in any measure quieter.

Are you sure? I do believe that when I suggested you were lying down, you said:

well, i was sitting up the first time i heard them.

 

[ungoliant]

Are you sure? I do believe that when I suggested you were lying down, you said:

wow, you guys are taking everything way too literally. maybe i should be more specific.

i was in the process of going to bed, i was turning around, arranging pillows, probably up on one elbow, half-sitting up, half-lying down. i had just gotten into the bed after turning out the lights. i was wide awake, alert, and not in any noticeably altered state of mind.

guess i need to be more specific to help you guys help me. it is so clear in my mind, i am not realizing that you were not there and have only my words here to go on.

 

[patnray]

My condolences for your loss.

It is very common, when a person we are close to passes away, to "see" or "hear" that person for sometime afterwards, especially if the death was sudden and unexpected. I experienced this when my grandfather died. For some months afterwards, whenever I heard certain words or phrases it evoked strong memories of him, to the point that I could "hear" him saying the phrases. Carl Sagan discusses similar experiences involving his parents (or was it grandparents??)

Some people speculate this phenomenon may explain the alleged visions of Jesus after his death...

Perhaps that's what's happening here. Sounds you hear, perhaps subconsciously, resemble the obviously distinctive sound your father made, which recalls such strong memories of him that they seem real to you. The sounds may bear only a faint resemblance to the sound your dad made, but they are enough to trigger strong memories.

This is a totally natural and normal part of dealing with the loss of a loved one.

 

[ungoliant]

My condolences for your loss.

It is very common, when a person we are close to passes away, to "see" or "hear" that person for sometime afterwards, especially if the death was sudden and unexpected. I experienced this when my grandfather died. For some months afterwards, whenever I heard certain words or phrases it evoked strong memories of him, to the point that I could "hear" him saying the phrases. Carl Sagan discusses similar experiences involving his parents (or was it grandparents??)

Some people speculate this phenomenon may explain the alleged visions of Jesus after his death...

Perhaps that's what's happening here. Sounds you hear, perhaps subconsciously, resemble the obviously distinctive sound your father made, which recalls such strong memories of him that they seem real to you. The sounds may bear only a faint resemblance to the sound your dad made, but they are enough to trigger strong memories.

This is a totally natural and normal part of dealing with the loss of a loved one.

that is alot to think about. that's the best explanation i have heard so far, although all of you have been helpful.

i certainly don't think my dad's ghost was haunting us, but his memory might have been. that would explain alot.

if you heard how my siblings talk about it, it definitely is stretched from what i remember and what i recorded. the mind is definitely at work here, so your theory is quite sound.

i've thought this over now, and as far as i'm concerned, that's as close as i'll ever get to an explanation. i accept that as the likely truth of the event.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Actually, it probably WAS your father's ghost . The explanation from Patnray is probably the closest we get to ghosts in the rational world, and may be the explanation for a great many "ghost" observations.

Hans

 

[Soapy Sam]

However, it does not address the matter of the sound itself- heard by three independent witnesses (all youngsters- the adults are not reported as hearing it) on several occasions, it always stopped before a light was switched on.

Here are some alternative hypotheses:-

1.The action of Ungoliant walking to the lightswitch always stopped the sound- implying that the cause was either the floor in Ungoliant's room- (nobody else is reported to have got out of bed), or something in Ungoliant's bed- the most likely thing being, of course, Ungoliant. Is it feasible he made the noise himself, but has repressed that from the otherwise excellent memory which he regularly refreshes by reading the diary he kept at the time?

2. One of the other occupants of the house (two other youngsters plus two adults) was making the noise and was able to tell when someone had got out of bed, so was able to stop before the light went on.

3. The shuffler was Ungoliant's uncle- who we are told shared his late brother's shuffling gait, was in the house and is nowhere stated to have heard anything unusual. An adult might well have stopped walking if he saw a light go on in a child's bedroom.


4. Ungoliant is having a small joke at our expense.

I lean towards (4) myself, but I wonder about (1).

 

[NeilC]

Tis true. My parents kept thinking they could hear their beloved pet dog for a few weeks. Never at the same time mind and they knew it was in their minds.

 

[ungoliant]

However, it does not address the matter of the sound itself- heard by three independent witnesses (all youngsters- the adults are not reported as hearing it) on several occasions, it always stopped before a light was switched on.

Here are some alternative hypotheses:-

1.The action of Ungoliant walking to the lightswitch always stopped the sound- implying that the cause was either the floor in Ungoliant's room- (nobody else is reported to have got out of bed), or something in Ungoliant's bed- the most likely thing being, of course, Ungoliant. Is it feasible he made the noise himself, but has repressed that from the otherwise excellent memory which he regularly refreshes by reading the diary he kept at the time?

2. One of the other occupants of the house (two other youngsters plus two adults) was making the noise and was able to tell when someone had got out of bed, so was able to stop before the light went on.


3. The shuffler was Ungoliant's uncle- who we are told shared his late brother's shuffling gait, was in the house and is nowhere stated to have heard anything unusual. An adult might well have stopped walking if he saw a light go on in a child's bedroom.


4. Ungoliant is having a small joke at our expense.

I lean towards (4) myself, but I wonder about (1).

well, i did not always get up to investigate, only 3 times according to my diary. the steps noises usually continued for about an hour or so on their own otherwise.

the adults both never reported anything nor commented on our discussions at the time. i did not note anything like that and i don't remember such.

1) the sound definitely appeared to be coming from the hall. my sister heard them downstairs, in the hall. they were not originated by me, that is almost definite.

2)maybe, but my sister claims she never heard my aunt or uncle leave the bed or their rooms, which she could easily.

however, i have no way of knowing this. but, there were sounds in my upstairs hallway, and no one was visibly there.

3)my uncle was not always present in the house when the sounds were occuring.

4)this is the reason i answered again.

i wish. my brother got very angry with me last night as i discussed this thread with him. if this was a joke, i would have had a better time at his place.

nope, this was real. a real event, anyway.

but, i have decided it was just subconscious activity combined with normal noise.

that it the simplest, most likely explanantion.

thanks guys, for all your help and interest.

 

[delphi_ote]

Here's another question: how well do you remember the conversations with your siblings? Did you ask them "Did you guys hear those shuffling noises last night?" or "Did you guys hear some noises last night?" or "Did it sound like dad was walking around last night?"

Perhaps there was a bit of mutual reenforcement in how you each interpreted the sounds that normally occur in an old house. Being that it was a traumatic time, it was probably difficult to sleep and you were probably all a little hyper-sensitive. You probably noticed all kinds of things you wouldn't otherwise. Add the power of suggestion to your each confirming the other's loosely formed memories and vague sensations and perhaps you have some part of the formula that led to this experience you had.

I also lost my father at a young age, so I can definitely identify with the state of mind that puts you in. Everything, even the routine, seems odd in some way.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Ungoliant. Re-reading my last post, item 1 comes across as rather sarcastic. My apologies for that and thanks for responding politely.

If you don't mind, there's one further thing I'd like to ask.
Is English your main language, or is it Italian? (I mean in which language do you routinely think.) Several times in the thread you have written things which could be interpreted in more than one way. This could be due to thinking in one language while typing another.

For example in your reply-

"...they were not originated by me, that is almost definite." (emphasis mine.)

You mean you are genuinely unsure about this? Or did you mean to say "that is most definite"?

 

[ungoliant]

italian is my first language, but english is my most used. i am fluent in four. my notes are in italian.

honestly, i think in both languages. when i think about this experience, since i was in sicily and in italian 'mode', i always think in italian because that was what was going on then.

also, my siblings and i have discussed this event many times since the first night all the way up to the night before last. so, i don't think i can mentally seperate what we said and when.