CHF
Illuminator
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,871
A couple weeks back I was lucky enough to be in NYC with my girlfriend and some pals on vacation. What an amazing city! Stunning sites, sounds, museums, restaurants…and kooks.
On Saturday Aug 25th, despite a nasty cold, I headed down to Ground Zero for a chat with the truthers. Now I know the camera work here is pretty bad but I recorded primarily for use by a radio station so video wasn't my main concern. I've posted my clips individually since I haven't the talent nor the patience to put it all together in a movie. I didn't film all that I would have liked (not enough space on my card) but I got enough to capture the logic on display.
I spent a good hour or so with these folks; some were polite, some were complete punks, and it was difficult at times to not get annoyed at hearing the same claims for the 500th time.
The first guy I talked to was a younger member whose narrative of 9/11 was "we don't know." He simply wanted his questioned answered and yet seemed oblivious to the fact that they already had been. For example, WCT7 and "pull it"
So he's unaware of the Implosion World paper, and unaware of what Silverstein and the FDNY say about "pull it" – but if they have in fact answered his questions then he'd like them to reiterate their statements at a press conference; then he might believe it.
Just like in cyberspace, this was to be a re-occurring theme. These people simply haven't looked for the answers they claim to seek and when presented with the answers, it still isn't enough.
Next up to bat was an older member of the group, on WTC7/Madrid Fire/FDNY/9/11 Commission Report. It was obvious that he was hearing every counter-point for the first time.
Ever wonder how truthers do their research? Every wonder why so few experts speak out? Wonder no more.
That bearded guy at the end was a real piece of work. He later complained about how the government and media treat truthers "like we’re children" and then went on to call me a "shill," "Satan" and made a remark about wanting to meet me in a dark alley somewhere.
Children indeed.
The guy he directed me to was this next fella, who explained how all sources outside of truther circles are compromised and used some good ol' circular logic to explain how experts and witnesses are scared into silence.
Yup, the fact that more professors, family members and first responders aren't coming out is in itself proof that they're being intimidated. After all, why else would they not come forward?
Then we got into specifics on the issue of demolition experts, and you know where that leads.
So who's an expert on non-conventional demolitions? "Independent research. Get off the government payroll!" Good answer, bro.
He later delivered another classic. What's a pyroclastic flow? It's "dust from an explosion." As for it being a volcanic term, that I was apparently "making up."
He soon walked away leaving the other two to face the ever troublesome Iraq/WMD question. Had to be persistent in order to get an answer but I got one.
During most of my stay, a team of Italian filmmakers (truthers) were shooting their own video and the local truthers were anxious to put on a good show. With a crowd of perhaps 20 truthers standing around me, a very loud fella started screaming about how firefighters had reported "explosions" and presented a binder full of their statements. How many FDNY had he contacted? No answer, just more screaming.
He then made the mistake of talking about how the lobbies of the towers had been blown out. "So why did the same thing happen when the Empire State Building was struck by a B-25?" I asked. Amazingly, none of them were aware of this even though some claimed to have read the Popular Mechanics book which has a picture of the blackened ESB lobby after flaming debris had crashed down an elevator shaft. The guy who'd been screaming at me even made the Dylanesque blunder of saying the plane was a B-52!
Not all truthers were such blowhards. It must be said that the guy from the fifth clip who works in "3D animation and physics" was a class act and we were able to have a civilized discussion, despite the objections of Mr. don't-treat-us-like-the-children-we-clearly-are.
I did get some answers about the Pentagon that left me a bit puzzled though. Sorry again for the crappy camera work.
Why replace Flight 77 with something else?
What about all those eyewitnesses?
While we were chatting, some woman who appeared to be strung out on drugs was wandering around muttering incoherent nonsense and asking truthers for change. He insisted that she wasn't one of them and then expressed some surprise that I wasn't filming her. Why would I film her if she wasn't a truther? Why in order to pretend she was a truther, of course – that way I could make the rest of them appear nutty.
No need, my friend. No need.
Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad?
Well, they've made a few movies that way so far...
On Saturday Aug 25th, despite a nasty cold, I headed down to Ground Zero for a chat with the truthers. Now I know the camera work here is pretty bad but I recorded primarily for use by a radio station so video wasn't my main concern. I've posted my clips individually since I haven't the talent nor the patience to put it all together in a movie. I didn't film all that I would have liked (not enough space on my card) but I got enough to capture the logic on display.
I spent a good hour or so with these folks; some were polite, some were complete punks, and it was difficult at times to not get annoyed at hearing the same claims for the 500th time.
The first guy I talked to was a younger member whose narrative of 9/11 was "we don't know." He simply wanted his questioned answered and yet seemed oblivious to the fact that they already had been. For example, WCT7 and "pull it"
So he's unaware of the Implosion World paper, and unaware of what Silverstein and the FDNY say about "pull it" – but if they have in fact answered his questions then he'd like them to reiterate their statements at a press conference; then he might believe it.
Just like in cyberspace, this was to be a re-occurring theme. These people simply haven't looked for the answers they claim to seek and when presented with the answers, it still isn't enough.
Next up to bat was an older member of the group, on WTC7/Madrid Fire/FDNY/9/11 Commission Report. It was obvious that he was hearing every counter-point for the first time.
Ever wonder how truthers do their research? Every wonder why so few experts speak out? Wonder no more.
That bearded guy at the end was a real piece of work. He later complained about how the government and media treat truthers "like we’re children" and then went on to call me a "shill," "Satan" and made a remark about wanting to meet me in a dark alley somewhere.
Children indeed.The guy he directed me to was this next fella, who explained how all sources outside of truther circles are compromised and used some good ol' circular logic to explain how experts and witnesses are scared into silence.
Yup, the fact that more professors, family members and first responders aren't coming out is in itself proof that they're being intimidated. After all, why else would they not come forward?
Then we got into specifics on the issue of demolition experts, and you know where that leads.
So who's an expert on non-conventional demolitions? "Independent research. Get off the government payroll!" Good answer, bro.
He later delivered another classic. What's a pyroclastic flow? It's "dust from an explosion." As for it being a volcanic term, that I was apparently "making up."
He soon walked away leaving the other two to face the ever troublesome Iraq/WMD question. Had to be persistent in order to get an answer but I got one.
During most of my stay, a team of Italian filmmakers (truthers) were shooting their own video and the local truthers were anxious to put on a good show. With a crowd of perhaps 20 truthers standing around me, a very loud fella started screaming about how firefighters had reported "explosions" and presented a binder full of their statements. How many FDNY had he contacted? No answer, just more screaming.
He then made the mistake of talking about how the lobbies of the towers had been blown out. "So why did the same thing happen when the Empire State Building was struck by a B-25?" I asked. Amazingly, none of them were aware of this even though some claimed to have read the Popular Mechanics book which has a picture of the blackened ESB lobby after flaming debris had crashed down an elevator shaft. The guy who'd been screaming at me even made the Dylanesque blunder of saying the plane was a B-52!
Not all truthers were such blowhards. It must be said that the guy from the fifth clip who works in "3D animation and physics" was a class act and we were able to have a civilized discussion, despite the objections of Mr. don't-treat-us-like-the-children-we-clearly-are.
I did get some answers about the Pentagon that left me a bit puzzled though. Sorry again for the crappy camera work.
Why replace Flight 77 with something else?
What about all those eyewitnesses?
While we were chatting, some woman who appeared to be strung out on drugs was wandering around muttering incoherent nonsense and asking truthers for change. He insisted that she wasn't one of them and then expressed some surprise that I wasn't filming her. Why would I film her if she wasn't a truther? Why in order to pretend she was a truther, of course – that way I could make the rest of them appear nutty.
No need, my friend. No need.
Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad?
Well, they've made a few movies that way so far...
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