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My Qi experience

Mangel

Student
M
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
26
I got myself a traditional Chinese massage the other day by a 'Qi' master, and:

Five minutes in a got a sick feeling in my stomach, like I wanted to throw up.

Ten minutes in I got dizzy and light headed to the point that if I had of been standing I would have fallen over, so I had to ask him to stop.

For fifteen minutes after it, my fingers felt like the blood flow had been interupted(had pins and needles).

He had been massaging my back, neck, and shoulders. He claimed the 'energy release' was what was affecting me. Thoughts?
 
It's really impossible to make kind of educated speculation, since we know nothing about your health, age or medical condition and have no medical report about you. Except, of course, to say that an unquantifiable "energy release" is an extremely unlikely cause of anything at all.
 
Two scientific possibilities: a) You happened to get sick during a massage and are attributing it to qi hastily

b) He pushed a pressure point that released a feeling of nausea. I'm not a doctor, so I have no idea what's possible. Is there a doctor in the forum?
 
All sorts of circulation problems/pauses could cause something like that, as could illness, a psychosomatic effect, a bad lunch...the list really is endless. But also a bit obvious, no?

To plunge in more deeply for the heck of it:
"Pins and needles" is generally caused by the pinching of a nerve, not cessation of bloodflow (contrary to common explanations of "my leg went to sleep"-type phenomena). Obviously, a pinched nerve during massage is quite possible. Stimulation of deep veins and arteries can trigger a nausea response, but that seems less likely. A non-paranormal massage therapist might have useful speculations--though it's all just speculation.
 
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Admiral said:
Two scientific possibilities: a) You happened to get sick during a massage and are attributing it to qi hastily

b) He pushed a pressure point that released a feeling of nausea. I'm not a doctor, so I have no idea what's possible. Is there a doctor in the forum?
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Aren't your avartar Jack the doctor ? :)
 
Jyera said:
Aren't your avartar Jack the doctor ? :)
Click to expand...

Sure, but by that logic, Goshawk is a hawk, Flange Desire is a cartoon character, Christen R is a mess of goo, and sat556 is a Pokemon. :)
 
stupidquestion said:
It's really impossible to make kind of educated speculation, since we know nothing about your health, age or medical condition and have no medical report about you. Except, of course, to say that an unquantifiable "energy release" is an extremely unlikely cause of anything at all.
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Well, I am young, reasonably healthy, and not prone to random dizzyness spells. It is vaguely possible I had heatstroke, seeing it is very hot here in sunny Perth, but, surely the most likely causality is that the sudden onset of the above symptons were directly caused by the activity I was undergoing at the time. A 'nerve pinch' or some sort I suspect.
Still, maybe my Qi was getting sucked away...or something. :eek:
 
Mangel said:
Five minutes in a got a sick feeling in my stomach, like I wanted to throw up.

Ten minutes in I got dizzy and light headed to the point that if I had of been standing I would have fallen over, so I had to ask him to stop.

For fifteen minutes after it, my fingers felt like the blood flow had been interupted(had pins and needles).

He had been massaging my back, neck, and shoulders. He claimed the 'energy release' was what was affecting me. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Lots of possible answers (really... there are tons). Here are the first three that immediately occurred to me.

Unscrupulous individuals have used substances like ether when attempting to "hypnotize" tough subjects. You could have had a reaction to incense or something else.

If he encouraged you to deep breath several times, you might have expelled enough carbon dioxide to cause all of the above symptoms.

He might have massaged your carotid arteries in your neck causing a vagal response.

etc, etc, etc.

For what it's worth, I'm an ER/trauma nurse.
 
Why did you go there in the first place? Were you ill, injured or something else?

I do massage - that certainly makes most people feel "odd" afterwards for a bit. People report feeling lightheaded, a bit dizzy, need to go to toilet a lot, or sometimes a bit nauseous. I'm not sure why but I imagine it is to do with the extra relaxation, focussing on body feelings for quite a while, maybe substances can build up in tight muscles (lactic acid etc?) that are released into the bloodstream when the muscles are pummelled. The areas of the body most involved are the neck and upperback - probably because they are often the most tense and perhaps because blood from them gets to the brain more easily since they are close to the head.
 
Mangel said:
Ten minutes in I got dizzy and light headed to the point that if I had of been standing I would have fallen over, so I had to ask him to stop.

Thoughts?
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Similar thing happened to me last time I had my hair cut.

I'd forgotten to have breakfast - it always happens to me about 10:30am if I don't eat anything all morning.
 
When you have massage or any kind of bodywork then it has a molecular effect on the body. It also affects the nervous system too.

Deep tissue massage can produce effects such as described. Lactic acid is a by product of anaerobic respiration and is toxic to the system, so this could definitely be responsible.

I have had severe reactions myself when I have had bodywork that went deep. I remember once going to see this guy who did really deep massage. I did not feel to bad straight away afterwards. I went to bed and then woke up at 3 am very thirsty and I could hardly move. I had to work the next day and was so sore I could hardly move. I kept drinking plenty of water, but by lunchtime I had the most terrible headache. I managed to get through the day and came home and just collapsed. I went to bed quite early, but then awoke during the night shivering and headachy and very thirsty. I then took my temp which had shot up to nearly 39c. I then had to sleep in a dressing gown as I was so cold and was waking up every hour to drink 500 mls of cold water until the fever broke at about 4 am. It had gone down by the next morning, but I still had a headache for at least 2 days following that.

That reaction all came about after a massage.
 
I once had a similar experience when, after drinking 8 pints and eating a kebab, I felt an inexplicable desire for traditional Chinese massage.

It was really quite spooky :O
 
Physiotherapist said:
Deep tissue massage can produce effects such as described. Lactic acid is a by product of anaerobic respiration and is toxic to the system, so this could definitely be responsible.

I have had severe reactions myself when I have had bodywork that went deep. I remember once going to see this guy who did really deep massage. I did not feel to bad straight away afterwards. I went to bed and then woke up at 3 am very thirsty and I could hardly move. I had to work the next day and was so sore I could hardly move. I kept drinking plenty of water, but by lunchtime I had the most terrible headache. I managed to get through the day and came home and just collapsed. I went to bed quite early, but then awoke during the night shivering and headachy and very thirsty. I then took my temp which had shot up to nearly 39c. I then had to sleep in a dressing gown as I was so cold and was waking up every hour to drink 500 mls of cold water until the fever broke at about 4 am. It had gone down by the next morning, but I still had a headache for at least 2 days following that.

That reaction all came about after a massage.
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You are assigning a causal relationship where there might not be one. Did it occur to you that you might have had a viral illness that night instead of a massage reaction? I can see you being sore after a deep tissue massage... after all, therapists can actually cause tissue damage when they do deep work, but fever & chills sound much more like an illness.

Yes, Lactic acid is a by-product of anaerobic respiration... yet why would a massage cause stronger symptoms than if you did some sprint work (running really fast) and got your heartrate into the anaerobic range? Lactic acid has been made a "bogey-man" by the massage industry.
 
Physiotherapist said:
When you have massage or any kind of bodywork then it has a molecular effect on the body.
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Excuse me?

Can you explain this, please?
 
my Qi experience...Qi is now an allowable word in Scrabble (according to the Official Scrabble Player's dictionary 4th ed.) There is now little excuse to have to swallow the Q at the end of the game.
 
I suspect that no matter what happened, even nothing, would have been attributed to something to do with Qi.
 
Mangel said:
Five minutes in a got a sick feeling in my stomach, like I wanted to throw up.

Ten minutes in I got dizzy and light headed to the point that if I had of been standing I would have fallen over, so I had to ask him to stop.

For fifteen minutes after it, my fingers felt like the blood flow had been interupted(had pins and needles).

He had been massaging my back, neck, and shoulders. He claimed the 'energy release' was what was affecting me. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Did he mention anything about the liver, wind, heat, or anything like that?
 
Mangel said:
Well, I am young, reasonably healthy, and not prone to random dizzyness spells. It is vaguely possible I had heatstroke, seeing it is very hot here in sunny Perth, but, surely the most likely causality is that the sudden onset of the above symptons were directly caused by the activity I was undergoing at the time. A 'nerve pinch' or some sort I suspect.
Still, maybe my Qi was getting sucked away...or something. :eek:
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My AUD0.02:
Ther reason why there's so many believers in the quackery is that it 'seems to work', i.e. the vague prophecies of the furtunetellers, cold reading, etc.

In this situation, there's some sort of response from your body to stimulating specific parts of it. The Qi practitioner learned that stimulating specific points causes specific reaction, and because he knows most people can't explain exactly why there is a reaction, they are vulnerable to accept any BS he may give them, be it energy release or something else.

One trap I noticed a lot of people here fall in to, is to give 'the placebo effect', 'preexisting virus', 'atmospherical conditions' etc as a likely explanation for well.. pretty much every effect of every quackery!
Isn't it like the quacks saying 'I had interference', 'God is omnipotent and can do everything' etc?
If you felt something while receiving the massage, it's most likely that what you felt was as a result of his actions, not something else.
The difference is the explanation - he says it's qi working (which he may well believe it is, cause that's what he was told when osmeone showed him how to do it), while the truth is likely a bit different.
 
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