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My new Job

scribble

Master Poster
Joined
Nov 16, 2001
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I'm mainly posting this here rather than in community because I don't have the time to keep up with community. :) This is going to be really, really long, and I promise there'll be some real computers and the Internet relevance somewhere along the line.

Some of you will recall I got canned from my previous job in a pretty spectacular fashion. Since then, things have just gotten better. Everyone had told me for years that my previous job was bad for me, but I didn't realize how true it was. Beaten wife syndrome, I guess.

So here's the story, a lot has happened but I'll try to stick to the Reader's Digest version. Because typing "my former employer" over and over gets annoying, I'll just call them ExCompany.

ExCompany was a "payment gateway." In a nutshell, there's a ton of work that goes into processing credit cards online, expense, security, regulations, proprietary hardware and software and interfaces and on and on. And if you do the work to get onto one credit card network, You will probably someday in the future end up doing the work to get onto another network, like a NACHA system for taking checks online. It's too much for the average merchant to worry about. So a payment gateway handles all that, and merchants just have to interface with the payment gateway, which is usually as simple as making a form that posts to it, like you would for a paypal payment. It can also be more complex, for the big merchants who have in house programmers and big existing systems for handling payments, or the ones who use "shopping carts." Nearly any "shopping cart" you've ever used online to buy something connects to a payment gateway to do the work of processing the payment.

If you've ever been a merchant, you've probably been through the process of getting a swipe terminal for credit card processing. We're the online equivalent of that, you get a merchant account from VITAL or FDR or Global or whoever and put that into our system, and we do the rest.

ExCompany was never more than about fifteen empoyees large, if that. There were three owners, one of whom was a programmer and had written the entire system. They had just moved into an office, and hired a CEO, and a tech support guy, and me, the second programmer (and only other programmer in my four-five years there, which I will probably call five if I refer to it again. It was like 4.2years.) This was before the dot-com bust, and I was in on the ground floor at the next Big Thing.

My boss, the programmer, is a totally amazing guy. There was during the course of my employ, some doubt that the system I was working on was the greatest in the world. But in retrospect I see this impression came mainly from the non-technical aspects of the business; the sales, and marketing, and particularly the CEO. The system that my boss had written was *excellent* and he is truly a brilliant programmer. I think, as a result of that, I always leaned on him too heavily for things I should have been capable of myself; I feel as though I acted poorly at that job.

The CEO of ExCompany was a hired CEO, the kind you get when you recognize you have no business sense. The problem with that proposition, I'm sure some of you see, is if you have no business sense, what are your chances of hiring the right CEO? I'll say no more about it.

One thing after another went right with our software, one thing after another went disappointingly with our business, especially after the dot com fallout. There was incredibly high turnover and the CEO fired people left and right. I was thankfully insulated from him by my boss, the programmer. As far as I was concerned, the CEO and I got along fine and if he was an a**hole, it was never to me -- I just figured those other guys were even worse employees than me.

Two of those other guys were the other two owners, they both ended up getting fired. The tech guy got fired, long before, so of the original group, there was the programmer, the ceo, and me. Everyone else kept passing in and out, some of the same people sometimes, even. At one point I got to check out the revolving door myself with a "layoff" of a few months when they "couldn't afford me." It should be noted I signed on originally at 1/2 my previous salary on a promise of a big raise "in six months or so when we go public." Neither ever happened.

I kept my head down, mostly. I was the only employee who didn't have to go to the meetings, so I never did. My boss let me have the privelege of only dealing with him, in just about every sense, and being a programmer and a damn fine one, he was a pretty lax boss. So I never knew anything about the business side of the business, just the tech. I never investigated anything our competitiors did, either, just worked on ideas passed down to my through my boss. Which were all brilliant -- so I never knew the sorry state of the competition, or how good we truly were.

All right, that's the history. Sorry I ramble on. So when I got fired, the first thing I did was call up one of the previous owners of ExCompany who had been canned as mentioned. He told me it was about time I got out of there, and he had a job lead for me, not a programming gig, but something I could just take for a month to keep food on the table. I assume he knew how much I was(n't) getting paid at ExCompany.

Turns out the job lead is with another ex-employee of ExCompany. He's now managng a payment gateway branch of a much larger parent company. I'm a little worried about taking a job at a real company instead of a little place, but then I find that parent company is trying to sell off the payment gateway, it's in the process of becoming it's own deal. It's got it's own office a town over from ParentCompany's HQ, and everything. This payment gateway spinoff, though, is just as small as easygoing as ExCompany. Well, almost. I get to wear jeans and a t-shirt, but no holes in either and no logos on the t-shirt. I can deal with that.

The job is covering tech support. The tech support guy is getting married, and has a three week long honeymoon in Bora Bora. Mainly, it's helping the bigger merchant's programmers and the people who write shopping carts certify their systems against ours. This was a step that is Really Cool, in my opinion, and reflects on the size of ParentCompany. ExCompany never thought to do such things -- although in their defense, it might have been my job to come up with that idea... who knows.

I did my homework before I even went in the first day to learn from the Tech Support guy. Their interface is similar to one I wrote at ExCompany, but the differences are startling. Startlingly bad. I don't want to talk too much about it 'till it's truly an ex-issue, which it isn't yet, I'll get to that. In a nutshell, everything at NewCompany reflects it's size and power. But it's technology says things you wouldn't expect from a big company. At first I thought it said, "We're in a hurry, and we'll be upgrading these systems soon." 'Cause it's not horrible, it's just bad. But I've learned these systems have been in place for over two years. In fact, I learned it when I did a google search for the company's technology to see if anyone had commented on it, seeing the same things I saw. At this point, I'm still seeing all the technology as a complete outsider, I don't know anything but the interface and documentation you can download right off their website. And I found just such a post, dated two years ago. In their defense, most of this crew came together about six months ago from what I can figure; I'm not sure how it operated before that. It may have been a neglected little branch of the parent company.

In the first day of learning how to handle their tech support from the honeymooner, I found there was much more to be improved upon than the public interface. Now, at this point, I also learned they had a new solution to be rolled out in a few months that would address some of their major needs. But it was obvious to me immediately it would leave them in the same position inevitably, of being stuck in their old needs and unable to move forward. I explained all this to my boss, who agreed, and found myself meeting with all the technical people at ParentCompany, who had come up with this new solution. I had to explain to all of them why their new solution was no good, and why their current solution was no good, and how I could make it all good. They all agreed. Well, to be fair, only one of them I spoke to directly, at first, and he agreed, and he talked to their CIO or CTO, whichever one it is that handles internal technology, and he agreed, and that was that.

We came up with a plan to fix things, and the guys at ParentCompany said they could have it done in two months. This was during a conference call, and my new boss, the manager of SpinoffCompany, says to me, "They can do that in more like 30, right?" and so I said to them, can we do 30? And they came down to 45 days. This is all significant, you'll see.

That night I sat up thinking more about wha tI'd learned about where they were and what they needed. I came up with a new solution, bsed on their current technology, that completely avoided any need to rely on ParentCompany's people to get it in place and useful. The real insight came when I let myself think in terms of an "interim" solution. This will be version 1.5, and I'll buy myself six months to work on a real solution for them, a 2.0. It was good, it would work, and what's more, I could do it in 30 days. With time to spare.

And I did, that and then some. Days I covered tech support and met with people and learned more about what they needed, nights I coded. Hard. I still feel I should have been able to do it in a week, it's not complicated stuff. It took me three, plus a few extra days when I learned about a new need and a new capability.

All SpinoffCompany has going for it technically is TechSupportGuy. Everything else is ParentCompany's programmers and tech people. They apparently have no time, so while I've been meeting with them and getting nods and smiles and promises of "we can get you that," I didn't actually get anything from them... every time there was a promise of, "we can do that," it was followed up by me coming up with a new way to not need that, or cover it myself. Bottom line is I own this project, the whole thing. Its the first time in my life I've been put in a position where I felt like I was free to take complete control of something, and I stepped in and did it.

TechSupportGuy came back from BoraBora. He was a little miffed at first to find the replacement he'd hired as a temp, and maybe had some visions of hiring on so he could do something more interesting than tech support, is now the one doing the more interesting things. I wouldn't say I'm his boss, but that's only because I have an extremely conservative view of proper relationships -- the same thing that's stopped me from taking complete control of anything before, because I always had a boss who's job I figured that was. Yes, I realize that's Wrong. Anyhow, I'll be working with him a lot, I'm going to try to use him to do parts of the new system. I asked him what programming languages he knows, since I knwo he wanted to be the one to work on the new stuff, I thought I could let him work on it with me. His reply was something along the lines of, "HTML, javascript..." blah blah blah. Funny story, but perfect for my needs; my "graphical interface" skills are weak. I can use an HTML table, and that's about as far as I go. So I can use him to do that, I've seen his presentations and they're very pretty. I'm a little scared it'll be some mess of generated HTML like you get from Save as HTML in Word, though... if it is, I don't knwo what I'll do. This interim solution only required a programmer's interface, no HTML involved. ... anyhow:

At the same time he came back, I got hired on as a regular employee. My title is to be pretty much anything I like, I assume -- I never asked for a title at my last job and wound up with "Senior Programmer." I imagine it'll end up similar here, though the things I've handled so far and probably will handle into the forseeable future are a lot more diverse than that.

Especially Linux systems administration. I can't bring myself to run a corporate system on Windows, for reasons I'm all to happy to discuss with anyone who wants to get into that, but this post is definately long enough already, and I'm only feeling about 3/4ths of the way done. Consider it my JREF fix, I haven't been around enough lately. Anyhow, my point was, all their systems are Windows, and I think that's rotten. I can show them ways it has cost them already, many ways. Fortunately, the guy at ParentCompany I had to pitch all my ideas to initially is cool with Linux, and so now they have their first Linux box. It may become a BSD box when I have nore time to make such considerations. Input is welcome. I'm running Debian on it, this time for mainly philosophical reasons. ParentCompany wouldn't bat an eye at paying Redhat's extortionistic fees for RedHat ES(*), but I wouldn't sleep as well at night knowing I'd bowed down to -The Man-. Similar for SuSe. Debian gives the Eric S Raymond in me tingles, and still gets a fair amount of corporate support, so I went with it.

(*"Need a place to host your system, Scribble? ParentCompany figured we would and bought a hosting company. Go meet them and find out what they need to do for you." Okay, it didn't happen exactly like that, but close. They bought the hosting company for a few other reasons primarily, which is good, because I don't think it's suited to our system long term.)

Boss asked me to name my salary when TechGuy came back and my "contract" with them was up. I told him a low number now, ad a high number later. We've just released the "interim" version of my software last week, and my plan for the complete solution is rougyl six months, plus continuing work as needs arise. There's plenty of other things they need a programmer for, too. I feel guilty asking for a lot of money before I've done anything for them, though, when TechGuy came back it was still a week or so to the release of my interim version, so they hadn't really seen anything yt, just had a ton of faith in me. In my opinion, a progrmamer like my boss at ExCompany would have done it in a week or less, and it took me closer to a month, so I didn't feel that a week's work was enough to judge me by, either, but when the full thing is good, then they'll know what I'm truly worth. So, low number now and high number later, I said.

Boss liked low number. Boss liked highnumber. Boss liked the plan. He wondered if I'd like to become a shareholder, too. He thought with lownumber and the work I'd done (which he hadn't even seen yet!!) they would want me to have a real investment in the company. The shareholders had a meeting a week later, where I'm told the VP stood up and said "Scribble has managed to do in three weeks what our people didn't do in two years." How could I lose?

Now boss only had time to give me tht quote, promise to talk to me more later, and take off to meet a client or something across the country until next week. So I'm still kind of in limbo as far as the bigger picture goes, but honestly, my main motivation at this point is how freaking fun it is to design this system from the ground up, in a way that's truly smart (as far as I'm concerned, anyhow.) It's sometihng I can be proud of all on my own, unlike at ExCompany where the best I could do was say, "Yeah, I wrote that part." And "That part" was usually just some add on module, not the core logic. though I had to modify plenty of the core logic along the way at Excompany, the framework was all in place before I got there. PLus, compared to the systems SpinoffCompany and ParentCompany have been using at many levels, I can't help but do better. Many of these systems have been contracted out to programming firms, and their work is crap. I dont' think of myself as a great programmer even now, but lately I've been thinking I'm better than I thought. If that made sense. Heh!

And once we get some real clients on it this week, I'll know how good I am. All my testing indicates I'm smart enough, but then my skeptical nature will only trust the real deal. If it turns out I've done as well as I've come to think I have, I won't have to worry about asking for high number later. I'll be able to get it anywhere.

So thanks for listening. Yes, I'm still alive. Just busy. Still plenty to do, too! It feels wonderful to be working at a place where I'm appreciated; where they've needed someone just like me for so long and been hurting so badly for lack of it. And with the system being all mine, I'm usually more interested in making it better than debating philosophy lately. Perhaps when it starts to look really good I'll be around more, about six months. Till then, I won't be a total stranger. :)
 
Good to see you back scribble :D


Very interesting story too. (seems like lots of work but its good you're enjoying your new job)
 
:jaw: I think I understood most of that!

Sounds really cool, and you sound like a genius, and I hope everything goes smoothly as you work through it all.

You learned from your first job, and now can apply it at your second along with your own abilities you already had. It's quite clear you have them, and it would be a relief to finally get some recognition for it.

In my much smaller world of boring work, I got a virus in an email at work. We were advertising for a new pressman since one of ours quit. We advertised on a few job sites. I got an email labelled "resume". I tried to open the attachment. Hello virus, goodbye old crappy hard drive. My boss freaks out. The art department started saying it was my virus affecting their photocopier (of all things), so they couldn't do some of THEIR work. They didn't have ANY anti-viral software on the computer. It does now, but I'm still restricted from using it. Ed forbid I even look at a web site, since spyware can come in from those!


Needless to say, we got a tech in to install a new hard drive, he confirmed my old one was dead beyond repair. He also noted that the last tech guy didn't give the art department half of the software and the type of hardware he said he did.

Who gets blamed for everything but the missing computer parts? Me.

I can't even use the email anymore. I have to write down all my correspondence and take it up to the art department. I have to phone instead of email quotes. I'm surprised I still get to touch the fax machine.

If you haven't guessed, the owners are so computer illiterate that they never touch one. They now think I am capable of stopping work upstairs through my hexed computer viruses.

I'm very frustrated.
I've only been there 2 months, and I can say my future there has been obliterated by their own ignorance. Their unwillingness to learn new technology is showing in their output. They are barely able to pay their bills.

I just wish they'd fire me so I can freely look for work elsewhere. Sighs.
 
Sweet story!

Several people have asked about you in Paltalk. Now we know what's going on.

Great stuff!
 
Eos of the Eons said:
:jaw: I think I understood most of that!

Sounds really cool, and you sound like a genius, and I hope everything goes smoothly as you work through it all.

You learned from your first job, and now can apply it at your second along with your own abilities you already had. It's quite clear you have them, and it would be a relief to finally get some recognition for it.

In my much smaller world of boring work, I got a virus in an email at work. We were advertising for a new pressman since one of ours quit. We advertised on a few job sites. I got an email labelled "resume". I tried to open the attachment. Hello virus, goodbye old crappy hard drive. My boss freaks out. The art department started saying it was my virus affecting their photocopier (of all things), so they couldn't do some of THEIR work. They didn't have ANY anti-viral software on the computer. It does now, but I'm still restricted from using it. Ed forbid I even look at a web site, since spyware can come in from those!


Needless to say, we got a tech in to install a new hard drive, he confirmed my old one was dead beyond repair. He also noted that the last tech guy didn't give the art department half of the software and the type of hardware he said he did.

Who gets blamed for everything but the missing computer parts? Me.

I can't even use the email anymore. I have to write down all my correspondence and take it up to the art department. I have to phone instead of email quotes. I'm surprised I still get to touch the fax machine.

If you haven't guessed, the owners are so computer illiterate that they never touch one. They now think I am capable of stopping work upstairs through my hexed computer viruses.

I'm very frustrated.
I've only been there 2 months, and I can say my future there has been obliterated by their own ignorance. Their unwillingness to learn new technology is showing in their output. They are barely able to pay their bills.

I just wish they'd fire me so I can freely look for work elsewhere. Sighs.

There's nothing keeping you from looking for work elsewhere, but you. If you wish they'd fire you, what's the worst they could do if they find out you're job-hunting? Fire you. It's not like you've invested in a future there.
 
Scribble

It's an interesting story. I hope it works out for you.

In general, it will be interesting to see if they do value you enough to pay you a decent wage, or if they just shuttle you into a cubicle after you worked all those miracles for them and try to keep low-balling you, and telling you things like "we'll evaluate your pay when your annual review comes up".

My past experience makes me a little jaded and suspicious of the 'good intentions' of corporate offices. It's amazing where the credit and bonuses go, besides wherever they belong. Especially when you're represented to people at geographically seperate offices.

From the description, you've slighted whole departments full of people. Not a stunning recipe for success if some of those people feel threatened, are good friends with key people in your chain of command, and the politics start up.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
So what was the "pretty spectacular fashion" in which you got fired from ExCompany? I must have missed it.

Hey, TCS.

Well, in a nutshell, I wrote some software in my own time that ExCompany's clients might find useful, and I offered to sell it to ExCompany. We'd had a verbal agreement that I was allowed to do consulting for their clients if it made me some extra money, so long as the consulting was based around helping people integrate to this API that I had written for ExCompany earlier. This software was a client for that API, which would make consulting for clients practically unnecessary; by offering it to ExCompany first I felt I was being a real nice guy. It should be noted I was only working for them two hours a day at this point.

The CEO at ExCompany responded by asking my to sign their NDA. I'd been working there since almost day noe, as I mentioned, and I'd always kept to myself, and somehow along the way the only things they'd asked me to sign were tax forms and health forms; they don't have so much as a signed offer of employment to me, and especially no written contracts regarding intellectual property. The only verbal contracts we had garunteed me complete freedom, or else I'd have quit long ago.

Their NDA said, among other things, that I wasn't allowed to "know" any of their clients, even the ones that were known publically to be clients of ExCompany. Furthermore, the CEO added verbally that if I ever went to work for any of their clients in any respect (even the previously-allowed consulting) that he would shut off their service immediately. Furthermore, the NDA said they already owned the software I'd written and *any* software I *ever* write that connects to any part of their system, even the *PUBLIC* APIs.

It was ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, and I wouldn't sign it. The CEO called me to "discuss" why I wouldn't sign it, but it wasn't much of a discussion. It was him asking me over and over for an hour whyI wouldn't sign it, and then when I explained why I wouldnt' sign it, it was him yelling at me that he'd make my life a living hell if I didn't. And then he'd calm down a little , and ask me again why I wouldn't sign it, and we'd go in the circle again. Everytime I told him I was going to let him go so I could call my lawyer or something, he'd cool off and try to keep me on the phone again. And I'm too nice of a guy, so the conversation didn't end for a long time. We went in circles around and around and finally at one point he asked me for the umpteenth time why I wouldn't sign it, and I said this time, fed up, "Because you don't pay me enough [to]." And he immediately responded, "You're fired for cause." and hung up on me.

Last I heard from him. I wrote to him asking why I was fired, he told me to direct all communication through his lawyers. So I called a laywer of my own, found out that in Illinois, employers are required to give you a complete copy of your employee file on written request. I wrote up a request, got a full copy of the file, learned all his threats were completely hollow, and immediately found a new job.

For the record, when I talked to the ExOwner from ExCompany who helped me find the new job, he told me the CEO had made similar threats to him when he quit and they were just as hollow; he'd never followed through.

On the other hand, when I talked to NewBoss at SpinoffCompany, he told me when he got fired from ExCompany (he was employed there for a few months, I think I mentioned previously), the CEO threatened to sue his ass off and then actually tried to do it. And failed in court.

That's it in a nutshell. The best revenge is living well, and in six months, the guys at ExCompany are going to feel like ◊◊◊◊ when they've got a new competitior that does everything they did but better. :)

Seriously, it turned out to probably be the best thing for everyone, but I sure felt horrible (and scared) for a while. I say it's good for me, for obvious reasons, and I imagine it's good for them because I never became as productive as I should have been, living in the shadow of ExBoss' programming genious.
 
evildave said:
Scribble
It's an interesting story. I hope it works out for you.


So do I!

In general, it will be interesting to see if they do value you enough to pay you a decent wage, or if they just shuttle you into a cubicle after you worked all those miracles for them and try to keep low-balling you, and telling you things like "we'll evaluate your pay when your annual review comes up".

Aye - I'm really taking a chance on these guys after what happened at ExCompany, but things here seem truly different. The CEO of ExCompany was a for-hire CEO that, as far as I can tell, was only using ExCompany to pay his salary so he could live in some confort 'till he kicks off. I know that sounds cynical, and I couldn't prove it, it's just my outsider's opinion. But at ParentComapny, the CEO is the guy who has built the company, and actually has made several of his employees filthy, filthy rich. I've heard a lot of promises, and if some of them don't materialize around the same time the full release of this software I'm writing is finished, then I'll just go find employment elsewhere. My only problem in finding a job right now is my crippled self-worth, which has been steadily improving since signing on at the new job.

I've begun to learn my ex-boss may have truly been the genius everyone made him out to be, and I've begun to learn that I'm head and shoulders smarter than the average programmer, too.


My past experience makes me a little jaded and suspicious of the 'good intentions' of corporate offices. It's amazing where the credit and bonuses go, besides wherever they belong. Especially when you're represented to people at geographically seperate offices.

Boy, are you preaching to the choir. The next six months will be mainly about me proving to myself that I'm good enough. If I don't manage to prove to them that I'm good enough in the process, then I'll go someplace else where I will be appreciated.

From the description, you've slighted whole departments full of people. Not a stunning recipe for success if some of those people feel threatened, are good friends with key people in your chain of command, and the politics start up.

My advantage here is that I'm no good at playing politics. If my work doesn't speak for itself, then I haven't got anything to say -- I'll be happier someplace else anyhow. the good news is, I really feel so far that this is the kind of place that's going to appreciate what I've got to say (via my work) -- so far they're loving me.

There is one fellow at the parent company who's apparently always been disappointed that control of SpinoffCompany wasn't given to him, and I see him evidencing that by always wanting to have some control over what it is I'm doing. The good news is that so far, I haven't had any trouble handling him... I've come up with a lot of ways that I can take advantage of his desire to be involved. For instance, tomorrow I will be giving him access to a new reporting tool I've written that will let him keep an eye on a realtime log of what the new system I've written is doing. This is good for both of us, because it will give him faith in what I've done, it's good for him because it gives him the illusion that he's got his finger on the button, too. And it's good for me, because I know he's likely to watch that thing like a hawk in case anything goes wrong. Once I get a feel for what kinds of errors I'm likely to see and how often, of course, I'll tune the reporting feature and automate a system to page me when there's a serious error... but in the meantime, this solves all my problems.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
I'm very frustrated.
I've only been there 2 months, and I can say my future there has been obliterated by their own ignorance. Their unwillingness to learn new technology is showing in their output. They are barely able to pay their bills.

I just wish they'd fire me so I can freely look for work elsewhere. Sighs.

Hey, take it from someone who was just there, you're better off cutting the ties yourself and finding something new. You can look for something new while you're still working there; the worst they can do is fire you, like Dave says! Heheh...

Of course, having just been in a similar situation, I know how hard it can be to get yourself out. I've little doubt I'd still be working for Excompany if they hadnt' forced the issue by trying to get me to sign that NDA.

But my life is so much better now that I'm not... You might find the same.
 
Thanks Scribble. Your words are encouraging.

I wanted to wait until TAM3 was over, but I'll see if I can stand it that long. Sad thing is, I just left another job because the boss was a horrible Tyrant. I started a thread on it, something about having a mean boss... 4 other people started and quit in the 9 months I was there. This boss bought a $150.00 tape recorder, took it off my paycheque without my permission, and MADE me use it. She hated writing things down, and wanted to dictate all her directions to me by voice. I wasn't allowed to write down what she said to me since she figured I'd have all this time to listen to tape recordings. Nevermind I couldn't hear half of what was on the crappy recorder. I could tell you a million other things equally horrible.

It only takes me a few days to find a job once I start looking though. I need to be more discriminant about the companies I go with. You really can't tell a lot until you start working at a place though.

You found something through other ex-employees. I'm wondering how one might get to know the company and its employees in some way before accepting a job. Hmmm, will try this networking thing. Any advice? At present I don't know where any other past fellow employees currently work.

Anyway, the best of luck at your new position. I don't foresee any really huge setbacks through your post. You've taken the helm and are trying to keep others on your boat. Will be keeping an ear out to hear how it all goes over the next few months
:)
 
Seems like you should spend more than a few days shopping for the job is problem #1.

Don't just settle on the first one that say "we'll take you" unless you're truly desperate for income.

If you don't have a little cash set aside, save up for your job hunt. What will keep you comfortable for a month? Collect that. There, now if it only takes a few days to find a job, you can find a few jobs and secure the most promising one.

Do a little homework before you even bother with the company, if that's possible. When you're waiting around for the interview, ASK someone who's working there what it's like, in private. Try dragging them to lunch. You'll get great intel.

The thing about maintaining some contacts from previous jobs is, it's a social thing and a professional thing. You actually have to make friends at work and work to maintain those relationships when people go away.

For a programming job, a network of friends and acquaintances will get your foot in the next job like you're only walking down the hall. I'm in such a small and nepotistic industry (Game Programmers) that it's literally not what you know, but who you know. The only jobs they ever pay to advertise for are '3D' graphics and '3D' artists. There are many kinds of work besides these, that many managers don't even know they need. For some reason, every layoff has resulted in a new position opening up somewhere else for me. Maybe I'm just that good. Maybe I'm just that connected. Maybe I'm just that lucky. It's hard to say. The work finds me. I've shipped three games this year. One was wholly programmed by me alone, two other were team efforts. This is a big improvement over the last two years working for different mismanaged and foundering MMORPG projects. One MMORPG I left because 'layoff' was written on every wall, and a new position opened up literally upstairs from me. The second laid everyone off after a year out of the blue when the company owner woke up one morning with "sense" and pulled the plug. Smart man: one year, wake up, kill it. The previous company kept its project limping along for a year after I left without anything but a pretty terrain engine and a thousand dreadful hacks (to make milestones look like they were happening) to show for it.

Then I got a call from a friend and former business partner a few weeks later, says he has contracts. Lots of contracts. Need work? Turned out to be relatively easy, albeit stressful work.

Right now I'm between contracts, but with $50,000 in the bank, I can't complain, and am not too stressed out over income (for now). I even got a nibble from another company to do the same kind of work.

This weekend I've taken a break and sort of fallen into the bad old UBB Forum habits that steal productivity away from me. Next week I seriously begin the 'internet thing', pending more contracts to keep the money flowing in. Billing will be one problem. Getting people to PAY will be another. Getting it DONE will be the fundamental challenge.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Thanks Scribble. Your words are encouraging.

This boss bought a $150.00 tape recorder, took it off my paycheque without my permission, and MADE me use it. She hated writing things down, and wanted to dictate all her directions to me by voice. I wasn't allowed to write down what she said to me since she figured I'd have all this time to listen to tape recordings. Nevermind I couldn't hear half of what was on the crappy recorder. I could tell you a million other things equally horrible.


Wow, that's incredible! I'd be amazed if that weren't grounds for a lawsuit!

It only takes me a few days to find a job once I start looking though. I need to be more discriminant about the companies I go with. You really can't tell a lot until you start working at a place though.

Too true... well, if finding a new job won't be too hard, maybe you should shop yourself around a bit... I mean, I was really amazed to have found this job, and I was really lucky it was the first thing I found. If it hadn't been, I probably would have taken the first thing I found and been just as miserable. If that made any sense.


You found something through other ex-employees. I'm wondering how one might get to know the company and its employees in some way before accepting a job. Hmmm, will try this networking thing. Any advice? At present I don't know where any other past fellow employees currently work.

I'm amazed at how much you can find out about some companies online these days -- don't forget to search google groups, too. But maybe that only works well for me because of my industry. I don't have the interpersonal skills to take someone to work and ask them how they like the company, but I do try to listen for hints about how the company treats its employees.

I'd try to mention some specific things I listen for, but I'm not really good with people, so I don't really have anything specific to listen for. I guess it's kind of voodoo. I should have a more scientific method. Obviously it's led me wrong in the past. Heh.!

Anyhow, thanks for the well-wishing. I hope you manage to find yourself in a good job soon, too!
 
scribble said:
Maybe I can help - that's my business. :)

What? Making people pay?

Evildave's Internet Service

"Pay me, or I'll send Scribble around to break yo legs!"

:)
 
Scribble...
I am glad to hear someone else had the (nearly) same tale as me. I worked for a multi-national eCommerce company that promised us the moon while losing record amounts of money in an eyeblink. The type of place where the CEO showed his dedication to the cause by not taking his bonus and freezing his salary for the next year..after freezing ours first. His base salary was 750k US and I could accept a freeze there too without too much sacrifice. Anyways they fired the lot of us with extreme prejudice and no recommendations leaving the Canadian branch with 5 programmers, one manager and the branch manager. It took me 2 years to get another job and it is with a very small company who wanted someone to create them a website that uses a unique form of auctions to liquidate overstocks, aged inventory and whatnot from our company. They gave me free reign to design it from the ground up except I had to use (for starters) Windows 2000 server, no COM objects and SQL server accessed using ASP and JScript. They wanted nothing but scripts for whatever reason and they gave me 6 months to get it into a testable version. All ready for live testing after 3 :) These guys are basically illiterate when it comes to the net and never disagreed with me about anything. It is nice to be all-knowing and all-powerful..:) Anyway I've spoken to remnants of the old comapny and their salary is dropping year after year while mine is going up depending on the sales from the website. When I realized that I'd be so far ahead of schedule I rewrote their 12 year old office system written in Access 97. The owner wanted to marry me after fixing up that crappy old database..lol..
I'd put the URL here but It's still password protected and still a top secret..lol.. I'll use any reason normally to put the URL somewhere.
Anyways nice play and make those idiots pay for letting you go..
 
Well, I really know nothing about hardware myself, I'm happy just to be able to use the software I at least know something about.

Okay, I quit my job yesterday. It was too much. My boss was having me only phone quotes to customers, and not have to type them up on the computer. You can imagine the problems that creates. I had people calling after getting bills and saying I said one thing, and they got another price. Sure, it was all handwritten on my end, saying what I told the customer, but the customers have no copies from us on paper. I was only allowed to fax quotes if the customers really really begged for a fax.

Not only that, but I was hired as an office person, not a salesperson. I got no commissions. It also took us a day or two to get quotes to my customers, because my boss had to price them out for me, I wasn't allowed.

Most of the time people had already gone with someone who gave them printed quotes within hours.

So yesterday I had an irate customer that said I quoted him a lower price than what he was charged etc. That, among other things.

My skills are not being utilized at all there. I don't do any bookeeping or anything else I have actual experience in. I'm not a salesperson, and that was not the job they advertised when I applied. Was supposed to general office, not exclusively sales.
Then the sales job is impossible to do effectively.

Well, they can't even pay their bills. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I had an interview with an oil company today. I will hopefully hear back this afternoon. No more family run businesses for me.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Okay, I quit my job yesterday. It was too much. [/B]


WHOOHOO!!! Congratulations!

Sounds like it was a real good move!

I can't believe the crap they put you though. There's some insanely stupid or cruel people in this world. How could they possibly think that gimping a talented person like that would aid their business in any way?
 
gmanontario said:
Scribble...

Anyways nice play and make those idiots pay for letting you go..

You know it!

Fascinating story, by the way. Things are still looking good for me!

If you're in Ontario, I bet I knwo who you worked for... :P
 
scribble said:
WHOOHOO!!! Congratulations!

Sounds like it was a real good move!

I can't believe the crap they put you though. There's some insanely stupid or cruel people in this world. How could they possibly think that gimping a talented person like that would aid their business in any way?

Thank you, any encouragement at this point will be helpful. I will find out if I get that new job on Monday.

I don't know if they were gimping me, but the way they figure a business should be run is running them out of business. The 2 sales people that do get commissions are running into problems as well. I think they gimp anybody who works for them simply because they have outdated policies. The competition is running them over. They can't pay their bills either. That worried me too. Our suppliers were cutting them off.

I did a mail merge for a mass mail out once, they had gotten me to handwrite all the addresses on more than 100 envelopes before. They had never heard of mail merge, and thought typing the addresses into the computer was a waste of time. I finally convinced them to let me try the mail merge. I had a hard time reading his handwritten lists, but we finally got all the names spelled right.

They sure don't think I'm talented, they told me I was argumentative. I guess trying to explain mail merge and also explaining how it was impossible for my computer's virus to wreck the upstairs photocopier is argumentative. I was just trying to spare them some time and fix some problems effectively.

We all know the best revenge is success, so here's to our success and those companies' failures. Ha!
 

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