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My "ESP" experiences

bjornart said:


Then please explain to us why they don't apply? Why does this not qualify as a coincidence that leaped out as special to you because of its unlikeliness? Why can't it be that your feeling of certainty was based on that? And why don't you realize that really weird things happen a lot in a world with 6 billion people who can only observe what happens to them and tend to ignore the actual statistical possibilities?
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It's obvious they don't apply. I didn't have Caller ID...didn't expect a call from that person...etc.

This does not leap out as a "coincidence" because I'm quite sure that I knew what was going to happen.

I realize full well that weird things happen. I've experienced hundreds of them. I don't think most of them were paranormal in any way.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The universe is the special case. There are others.
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There are far more "others" than there are things you can easily explain through "evidence."

Right now, millions of things are happening all throughout the world, that you'd never be able to prove, no matter how hard you tried.
 
[/B][/QUOTE]
You don't think that it could've been a Deja vu, memory misplacement type of event?
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No.

IE.. you believe in ESP in this case.. just because.
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You can say this over and over, and it still doesn't change the fact that I don't have my mind made up at all, nor should I, based on the explanations and evidence that I have.

No it's not. Your "probabilities" are wholly based on your personal outlook and not real statistics.
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Your "explanations" are wholly based on statistics, and not my particular experience.
 
I will not debate the "coincidence" thing any longer. I have had plenty of coincidences occur in my lifetime. There is no need for you all to give me these condescending explanations of how coincidences happen. If you don't believe me that this was something more then a coincidence, then fine. I am not going to bother trying to convince you any longer.

So you are closed off to the possibility that it's just a coincidence.. like a true believer. The fact is, strange coincidences happen all of the time and just because your mind tricked you into thinking that you "knew" something doesn't mean that you really did. You want to believe that you knew, you have to believe that this was more than coincidence because you want to believe in ESP. You claim you don't believe in ESP yet you certainly argue against the mundane like a believer. You have failed logic with your arguments. With all of your education, you are still just a woo-woo.
 
No.

Then you don't understand what Deja Vu is, do you? It's when the mind misplaces information into memory of an event that just occured giving the illusion that you have already experienced the event. How you have determined that it wasn't this phenomena will be interesting to hear.

You can say this over and over, and it still doesn't change the fact that I don't have my mind made up at all, nor should I, based on the explanations and evidence that I have.

You have made up your mind that it cannot be a coincidence, that it has to be something else. This is wholly based on emotion.

Your "explanations" are wholly based on statistics, and not my particular experience.

Exactly, it's because experiences are not reliable evidence.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Your "explanations" are wholly based on statistics, and not my particular experience.

Exactly, it's because experiences are not reliable evidence. [/B]
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My experiences are not reliable evidence for you, because you didn't experience them. Nothing I can do about that. Perhaps you will have similar experiences one day.

But it's amusing that you're obviously trying to "win" an argument, trying to "prove" your point...and yet all you do is talk about other people, and talk about statistics. Everyone knows that statistics are all about probabilities and confidence intervals and so forth. Trying to prove your point by using statistics is just dumb. I think Randi and other respected skeptics would be the first to admit that they don't "know" much at all, really...and yet you're just so certain you have it all figured out.

If you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, please leave this thread and go start your own.
 
My experiences are not reliable evidence for you, because you didn't experience them. Nothing I can do about that. Perhaps you will have similar experiences one day.

They are not reliable evidence for anyone, including you. It doesn't matter who you are, anecdotes alone are not evidence.

But it's amusing that you're obviously trying to "win" an argument, trying to "prove" your point.

No, I'm merely showing you the fallacies of your thinking. You call yourself a skeptic, yet you don't think critically.

..and yet all you do is talk about other people, and talk about statistics.

I also talk about your fallacies.

Everyone knows that statistics are all about probabilities and confidence intervals and so forth. Trying to prove your point by using statistics is just dumb.p

You were the one trying to prove your point with statistics, it was you that claimed that your experiences were like winning the lottery. I simply didn't accept your "statistic" because it is wrong.

I think Randi and other respected skeptics would be the first to admit that they don't "know" much at all, really...and yet you're just so certain you have it all figured out.

Yea you're correct, I have figure out that you are a true believer in skeptic's guise. You aren't original in claiming "I'm skeptic BUT..."

If you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, please leave this thread and go start your own.

I have contributed to the thread. If you have a complaint, feel free to contact a moderator.
 
[/QUOTE]They are not reliable evidence for anyone, including you. It doesn't matter who you are, anecdotes alone are not evidence.

Then why do people get sent to jail every day, based on "anecdotes"?

I also talk about your fallacies.
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Please stop throwing the word "fallacies" around until you learn what it means. Your insistence that I am fallacious helps to prove my point.

You were the one trying to prove your point with statistics, it was you that claimed that your experiences were like winning the lottery. I simply didn't accept your "statistic" because it is wrong.
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I did not initiate the lottery discussion, I only attempted to correct someone else's explanation of the event that I (not he) experienced.

Yea you're correct, I have figure out that you are a true believer in skeptic's guise. You aren't original in claiming "I'm skeptic BUT..."
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I assure you that originality is not a priority for me.
And there's nothing un-skeptical about saying "I am a skeptic, and I cannot yet explain this."

You call yourself a skeptic, yet you don't think critically.
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My critical thinking indicates that there is a very high probability that you have major self-esteem issues.
 
Then why do people get sent to jail every day, based on "anecdotes"?

Jail.. maybe, just incase the person really did do the crime. They are not, however, convicted on anecdotes alone.

Please stop throwing the word "fallacies" around until you learn what it means. Your insistence that I am fallacious helps to prove my point.

But you are, your arguments are not logically valid.

I did not initiate the lottery discussion, I only attempted to correct someone else's explanation of the event that I (not he) experienced.

So he said it was a coincidence and you claimedthe lottery statistics.

I assure you that originality is not a priority for me.
And there's nothing un-skeptical about saying "I am a skeptic, and I cannot yet explain this."

Yes, but when you reject all mundane explanations given based solely on your experiences, you are no longer a skeptic.

My critical thinking indicates that there is a very high probability that you have major self-esteem issues.

You can insult me all you want, it doesn't matter. It seems that you are the one with esteem issue, especially when your experiences are questioned.
 
epepke said:
Well, this is a long thread, so I forgive you. But from the original statement:

"I have had roughly 15 "ESP" experiences during my lifetime. I am going to explain the two most "powerful" in some detail. I will be happy to share others if there is any interest."
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I apologize whole-heartedly to anyone I argued with about this point.
 
T'ai Chi, since you have so easily evaded my previous response, let me ask you: "What things do you not believe in?"
 
Stereolab,

Can I ask you to consider this…

People here are telling you your memory may have been unreliable or played a trick on you IMMEDIATELY after the event…

You reject this on the basis of that VERY SAME memory. (can you see the circular reasoning trap you have fallen into ?)

Now as NO ESP has ever been shown to exist.. doesn’t it give weight to their argument that your memory was faulty… It is understandable that you are unwilling to give this credence.. but NOT giving it credence does not make sense.. woo woo’s do not give the most logical answers credence !

As far as statistics go you have a 1 in 17 billion chance of winning the lottery 5 times in a row (in Melbourne anyway).. I would argue that predicting a friend who rings 2-3 times a year would be much less.

Lets say you have 20 phone calls a day.. this makes the odds 1 in 3,650 or 4.7 million times more likely than winning lotto 5 times in a row…

So I doubt the coincidence factor can be counted out either.
 
Stereolab said:
They are not reliable evidence for anyone, including you. It doesn't matter who you are, anecdotes alone are not evidence.
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Then why do people get sent to jail every day, based on "anecdotes"?
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:D Interesting statement, given some of the earlier examples on this thread. I was ready to swear that I had been mugged by somebody, and I was wrong. That person could have been sent to jail on an anecdote...and the anecdote would have been lousy evidence.

People have been executed wrongly because witnesses persist in thinking that their recollection could not possibly be mistaken. If you really want to open your eyes to what science knows about memory and eyewitness testimony, google "Loftus Eyewitness Testimony" and you'll see that quite a lot has been done. Of course, none of it applies to you since you know your experience is different. Somehow.

Please, take the time to learn a bit about the psychology of sensation, perception and memory. Particularly memory. The Loftus stuff is a great place to start. Then tell us exactly why it does not apply to you. I'll be very interested in hearing it.
 
Mercutio said:
Please, take the time to learn a bit about the psychology of sensation, perception and memory. Particularly memory. The Loftus stuff is a great place to start. Then tell us exactly why it does not apply to you. I'll be very interested in hearing it. [/B]
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I will do that.

I am not going to bother responding to this constant blabbering from the pseudo-skeptical peanut gallery (not you, Mercutio) any longer...I will return when I have more information to share.
 
Stereo,

I am not sure if you understood my “circular reasoning” issue.

You are judging your memory by using your memory.

I once asked a fundamental Christian how he KNEW the bible was the word of God and he told me.. “The Bible says so”

Isn’t it fair to admit that your memory MAY be wrong or selective.. and as these are KNOWN explanations for ESP isn’t it also fair to assume these are FAR more likely explanations for your situation than UNPROVEN UNLIKELY ESP ?

BTW.. Was I one of those in the pseudo-skeptical peanut gallery ? I treated you query with considerable respect (I thought .. especially for me) and got NO response…
 
Stereolab said:
I am not going to bother responding to this constant blabbering from the pseudo-skeptical peanut gallery (not you, Mercutio) any longer...I will return when I have more information to share.
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Sorry, but your unwillingness to seriously consider any mundane explanation and your insistent implication that this was somehow an unprecedented paranormal event makes you the pseudo-skeptic, not us.
 
Stereolab said:
All that said, I have experienced some things in my life that simply cannot be explained, as far as I can tell. I am wondering if anyone might have some insight as to what has happened to me, or if anyone has similar experiences to share.
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Absence of an immediate explanation does not indicate in any way, shape, or form, that magic is the only explanation.

Oh, and I have no burden of proof to "disprove" your conclusions. You are making the assertive claim, please support it.
 
I was thinking about this thread and whether his experiences could be related to deja vu, so I read what I had missed to check and see if it had been mentioned. Then I see that TBK of all people had already mentioned it. Clearly there is something paranormal going on in this thread, as for once I agree with TBK and actually believe he contributed something. Cue spooky music.... :D

But seriously, I don't know about the rest of you but when I experience Deja Vu I try and anticipate what happens next. Most of the time I am quite wrong, or simply "can't remember". In his cases, however, perhaps he guessed correctly, which would give a very strong sensation of knowing something before it happened. Also, the times when he was "wrong" or "couldn't remember" would be written off as deja vu, and thereafter forgotten.

I am also still interested in the other incidents. Are there any other unexplainable incidents that Stereolab could share with us? I'd be very interested.
 
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