My cousin is a "Dr of Oriental Medicine"

[shalomsteph]

I was vaguely aware my cousin was titled "Dr." and had a pretty thriving practice featuring acupuncture and vitamins in the Miami, FL area.

I was unaware that he could be a primary care practitioner.

Basically, my aunt asked for a referral for a specialist MD. I said maybe she could get a referral from her PCP. She said her son is her PCP and she hasn't seen an MD in 10 years because she thinks acupuncture cures everything. The ONLY reason she was having *this* issue was because she didn't know about acupuncture 20 years ago, when the problem started, and it just didn't work fast enough.

Anyway...I am really wondering what kind of schooling is required to be a Dr of Oriental Medicine? Is it an actual doctoral degree, like a PhD? What Bachelor's Degree would be accepted into this doctoral program? I searched a website and only found acupuncture colleges. I didn't find any accredited Universities offering degrees in this. (His website doesn't say a lot about his education, only that he is a certified practitioner. Certified by some agency in Eden Prairie, MN.)

Also, on his website, I saw that he accepts insurance. Insurance pays for this? I know when I worked in health insurance a few years ago (before ObamaCare) riders were available in specific locations, but only CA allowed it then, and we only allowed it in the San Francisco market. I don't remember Florida being a place where a rider could even be purchased.

Thanks for any answers. I am totally curious and I DID JFGI. Can't find out much.

 

[bigred]

what kind of schooling is required to be a Dr of Oriental Medicine? Is it an actual doctoral degree, like a PhD?

I think you know the answer.....

I didn't find any accredited Universities offering degrees in this.

Surprise.

Sounds like he has a promising future "curing" cancer (or at least denouncing methods that actually work). He could rail on about the "big pharmacies" etc etc. Maybe he could hook up with Mercola ad nauseam.

 

[shalomsteph]

So he actually went through a Master's and PhD program somewhere? 5 years post-grad?

He does have a legit undergrad degree in Anatomy and Physiology. Then? He couldn't get in or didn't want to get in to medical school.

I could find no PhD program in Florida, even at the "Dragon Rises College of Oriental Medicine" *Yes, this college exists.*

ETA: They really don't like to tell you this stuff. But, I found one school that did list the entrance requirements. 60 credits, which is 2 years of college with 4 credits in Anatomy and Physiology, and 6 credits in other hard sciences that have labs. But if you don't have them, no worries--you can do extra lab work there. Then (whenever you finish there) it is a Master's. I STILL don't know what in the hell a doctorate is.

 

[luchog]

The local woo med school, Bastyr University, doesn't require any undergrad medical training, and does provide a few basic courses in anatomy, etc.; but IIRC is not allowed to give MD titles; but instead is able to confer a ND or NMD (Naturopathic Doctor, or Naturopathic Medicine Doctor). I'm not sure what the various state or federal proscriptions are on NDs using Dr. as part of their title. Probably acceptable, since they techncial have a doctorate from a school which is accredited by what appears to be a legit accreditation authority.

 

[Madalch]

The local woo med school, Bastyr University, doesn't require any undergrad medical training, and does provide a few basic courses in anatomy, etc.; but IIRC is not allowed to give MD titles; but instead is able to confer a ND or NMD (Naturopathic Doctor, or Naturopathic Medicine Doctor). I'm not sure what the various state or federal proscriptions are on NDs using Dr. as part of their title. Probably acceptable, since they techncial have a doctorate from a school which is accredited by what appears to be a legit accreditation authority.

I think that, generally, they're not allowed to, but they do anyway.

 

[Manopolus]

Had a chiropractor tell me she was a doctor the other day on FB. I replied, "Really, Chiropractors are MD's now?" And then for some reason I felt guilty for trying to tell her that the "detox" diet she had been yammering on about was bunk, since I didn't know that she was a woo peddler prior to commenting (found out by looking at her info page). I might have even threatened her profits.

I have no idea why I feel guilty about that... guess partially because it was just someone I knew in high school, and had no clue she was a Chiropractor before this discussion.

Anyway, yeah... I happened across an article saying that chiropractors can be primary care providers now when I went to double check what I know about the subject. They basically tend to be an "everything except what works" medical specialist nowadays. It's rather sad how deep the manure can get when money combined with pop culture trumps truth. When it comes right down to it, I think they should arrest the lot of them for practicing medicine without a license or fraud or something like they did back in the 1930s or so.

 

[dasmiller]

Anyway, yeah... I happened across an article saying that chiropractors can be primary care providers now <snip for brevity> When it comes right down to it, I think they should arrest the lot of them for practicing medicine without a license or fraud or something like they did back in the 1930s or so.

FWIW, I think that most of them are sincere; they genuinely want to help people and they believe that they're doing good. For that reason, I can't feel too angry at them and if I were in charge, I wouldn't have them arrested.

Of course, if I were in charge, most of 'em would suddenly be unemployed.

 

[bigred]

So glad you're not in charge then. Lot of very good, worthwhile chiros out there. Generally they are not "woo peddlers" pimping magical herbs etc etc. They stick to what they know: neck/back corrections.

 

[marting]

I was called up for jury service on an accident claim where the injury testimony was by a chiropractor. Needless to say, when I stated my profession, engineering, I was promptly dismissed.

 

[thebicyclist]

So glad you're not in charge then. Lot of very good, worthwhile chiros out there. Generally they are not "woo peddlers" pimping magical herbs etc etc. They stick to what they know: neck/back corrections.

Chiro's don't have evidenced base treatments for back or neck problems. Letting a chiro near your neck is down right dangerous

 

[Manopolus]

Chiro's don't have evidenced base treatments for back or neck problems. Letting a chiro near your neck is down right dangerous

Seconded. Everything reputable I've read about it says exactly this.

 

[PixyMisa]

Your cousin is a Dr of baloney!

 

[mutile]

FWIW, I think that most of them are sincere; they genuinely want to help people and they believe that they're doing good. For that reason, I can't feel too angry at them and if I were in charge, I wouldn't have them arrested.

Of course, if I were in charge, most of 'em would suddenly be unemployed.

I think that people in areas of responsibility don't have the right to be wilfully ignorant.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

But going to real med school is hard, and it takes a long time, and you have to learn so much more before setting up a practice.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

So glad you're not in charge then. Lot of very good, worthwhile chiros out there. Generally they are not "woo peddlers" pimping magical herbs etc etc. They stick to what they know: neck/back corrections.

Chiropractic is woo: http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html

And it's dangerous, too: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/adverse-effects-of-chiropractic/

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Chiro's don't have evidenced base treatments for back or neck problems. Letting a chiro near your neck is down right dangerous

Chiropractic is about as good as other treatments for lower back pain (ie not all that good). Given the problems with chiros trying to treat other stuff, I'd stick with other treatments (painkillers, physiotherapy, exercise).

 

[Polaris]

They give out doctorates for potpourri and the poaching of critically endangered species?

 

[Zelenius]

I can kind of relate, though fortunately my cousin the chiropractor lives very far away and I see him maybe every 15 years. Last I heard, his practice is thriving, though I don't like looking at his website.

My impression of most people I've met who get degrees in quack "medicine" is that they have the ambition to be medical doctors, but they lack the discipline and/or intelligence to complete medical school. Indeed, a large part of the reason they are anti-science is because they just aren't very good at it.

The sad thing is that many of these people could have become physical therapists, or nutritionists, or even physician's assistants, but no, all these titles are beneath them, they had to become a "doctor" no matter what. They just gotta have that "Dr" before their name.

They are worse than pathetic the more you think about it. They are like the adult version of the little kid who has a toy stethoscope and plays pretend doctor with his friends. Except there is an entire industry that caters to their delusions and gives out pretend degrees to those who desire to play doctor.

A person with no ethics or morals could make a lot of money by opening up schools of "alternative" or "holistic" engineering. Or architecture. In fact, I think there's a few places out there that grant "degrees" in this.

 

[pgwenthold]

I propose that any profession that routinely defends itself as "Not all of us are quacks" has a serious problem.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

The town I live in is infested with "Practitioners Of Alternative Medicine", and I'm amazed at how many people are taken in by the bull they peddle. I personally knew a chiropractor (the wife of a friend) who was very big on selling homeopathic medicines - I was in her store room checking out the shelves upon shelves of these medicines, and taken aback at how absurd they were, and would read the labels trying to figure out what they were even suppose to do for the patient (they usually had descriptions such as "Extract of virgin sheep lever for a healthy living").

I have friends who went to doctors that they thought were legitimate doctors, and only realizing during the examination that they practiced woo medicine, which made me wonder how these doctors were able to sell themselves to appear legit, then were able to offer illegitimate advice (for example, one friend went to allergist, because they billed themselves as a real allergist, but during the visit, the "Allergist" had my friend hold a magnet while the doctor waved a carton of milk over her stomach, while squeezing the my friend's hand. My friend felt embarrassed to be there when she realized what kind of medicine he actually practiced).

So now this thread has me wondering how these "Practitioners Of Alternative Medicine" are able to advertise themselves to appear legitimate, and avoiding legal issues with what kind of medicine they practice?

And seriously, if somebody hung a sign outside his house that said "Doctor Of Ancient Chinese Secrets", people in this town would flock to his door! But it's the ones that pass themselves off as real doctors that have me concerned, I'm guessing that they actually may have gone through med school (such as the allergist described above) and somewhere along the way started inserting alternative medicine into their practice.