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My argument against materialism

punshhh said:
I know I wont change your mind on this, I will answer your question though.

In my reply to yy2bggggs half an hour ago, I refered to the personality and the ego. These colour the minds awareness of reality, in spiritualism it is necessary to factor out this colouring by a process of psychological introspection.
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How in the hell are you going to eliminate the effects of your own personality and ego by introspection? That's just stupid.

punshhh said:
Also it is necessary to develop a realistic concept or attitude of your own position in the universe. This is why I keep going on about unknowns and mysteries. Awareness of these enables one to find a realistic perspective on existence.

I know this sounds daft to a scientist, but it is a tried and tested technique. Not tested in scientific terms, rather through personal testimony.
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Yes, which are known to be completely and utterly useless and unreliable.
 
punshhh said:
I know I wont change your mind on this, I will answer your question though.

In my reply to yy2bggggs half an hour ago, I refered to the personality and the ego. These colour the minds awareness of reality, in spiritualism it is necessary to factor out this colouring by a process of psychological introspection.
Also it is necessary to develop a realistic concept or attitude of your own position in the universe. This is why I keep going on about unknowns and mysteries. Awareness of these enables one to find a realistic perspective on existence.

I know this sounds daft to a scientist, but it is a tried and tested technique. Not tested in scientific terms, rather through personal testimony.
Click to expand...
Being an ancient, simple soul, I would much appreciate an alternative, simpler version of the two parts in bold!:confused::)
What is the difference between psychological introspection and introspection in general?

With 'personal testimony', you can set your own rules though.

(8:55 - time for my Wednesday reader to arrive in a minute. We are almost at the end of 'I Shall Wear Midnight' by Terry Pratchett! Back later.)
 
Mashuna said:
Do you have any examples of these useful results? I'd like to understand the kind of thing you're thinking of here.
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Well I can speak from personal experience, I was aware that I had some personality traits while growing up which made social interaction difficult.
Like shyness, over sensitivity, disrespectful of some things etc.

These were not a problem, but on occasion were problematic. When older I came across techniques for dealing with these characteristics from time to time. I would some times try it, it might help a bit or not. By this time I was also experimenting with religious experience, reading science etc. and found I was already putting into practice techniques I had studied years earlier.

There are a whole spectrum of psychological techniques for working with your own personality, unlearning conditioning, coming to terms with and knowing your ego, for example.

When one takes spirituality more seriously there are more formal and precise forms of this introspection which one can practice.

Now I have transformed these character traits I had when I was younger along with others into more constructive and or creative forms and feel the benefit all the time.
 
punshhh said:
Well I can speak from personal experience, I was aware that I had some personality traits while growing up which made social interaction difficult.
Like shyness, over sensitivity, disrespectful of some things etc.

These were not a problem, but on occasion were problematic. When older I came across techniques for dealing with these characteristics from time to time. I would some times try it, it might help a bit or not. By this time I was also experimenting with religious experience, reading science etc. and found I was already putting into practice techniques I had studied years earlier.

There are a whole spectrum of psychological techniques for working with your own personality, unlearning conditioning, coming to terms with and knowing your ego, for example.

When one takes spirituality more seriously there are more formal and precise forms of this introspection which one can practice.

Now I have transformed these character traits I had when I was younger along with others into more constructive and or creative forms and feel the benefit all the time.
Click to expand...

You talk about spiritual alternatives to science, and refer to psychological techniques. Are you classing pyschology as something separate to science here?
 
PixyMisa said:
We have calculus. Other animals do not have calculus.
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I appreciate the value of calculus, I use a system of thought similar to this.

Calculus has not provided us with omniscience, hence there are still Inconceivables.
 
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laca said:
How in the hell are you going to eliminate the effects of your own personality and ego by introspection? That's just stupid.



Yes, which are known to be completely and utterly useless and unreliable.
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I see no point in me explaining these things to you and you saying its all nonsense. Lets just not talk about it.
 
punshhh said:
I see no point in me explaining these things to you and you saying its all nonsense. Lets just not talk about it.
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You brought it up and claimed it provided answers. I see you cannot substantiate that claim. Not that I expected you to follow through.
 
Mashuna said:
You talk about spiritual alternatives to science, and refer to psychological techniques. Are you classing pyschology as something separate to science here?
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No I'm only using it to refer to the workings of a persons mind.
 
punshhh said:
I know I wont change your mind on this, I will answer your question though.

In my reply to yy2bggggs half an hour ago, I refered to the personality and the ego. These colour the minds awareness of reality, in spiritualism it is necessary to factor out this colouring by a process of psychological introspection.Also it is necessary to develop a realistic concept or attitude of your own position in the universe. This is why I keep going on about unknowns and mysteries. Awareness of these enables one to find a realistic perspective on existence.

I know this sounds daft to a scientist, but it is a tried and tested technique. Not tested in scientific terms, rather through personal testimony.
Click to expand...

We factor out the ego and personality by looking within oneself? Seems self defeating to me.

You're never going to understand that many of us here have done that very thing and found it to be a dead end.


My position in the universe is planet Earth.
 
punshhh said:
Point out where I made that claim and I will explain.
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Come on! Every post you make hints at your belief that science cannot explain everything and that mysticism has useful answers. But to endulge you, I'll link to just one of your posts:
punshhh said:
They do produce usefull results for their practitioners.
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Satisfied? Now could you explain what you mean by "usefull result"?
 
punshhh said:
Baloney, is this your longer version of no.

Lets be more specific, I propose two versions of the word;

inconceivable=cannot currently be comprehended
Inconceivable=incapable of being comprehended

I would not be so bold as to say that humanity is any different to any other animal when it comes to these two categories. Just a bit more advanced in its use of the brain.
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Inventing ones' own vocabulary is a sign of woo.
 
punshhh said:
Well I can speak from personal experience, I was aware that I had some personality traits while growing up which made social interaction difficult.
Like shyness, over sensitivity, disrespectful of some things etc.

These were not a problem, but on occasion were problematic. When older I came across techniques for dealing with these characteristics from time to time. I would some times try it, it might help a bit or not. By this time I was also experimenting with religious experience, reading science etc. and found I was already putting into practice techniques I had studied years earlier.

There are a whole spectrum of psychological techniques for working with your own personality, unlearning conditioning, coming to terms with and knowing your ego, for example.

When one takes spirituality more seriously there are more formal and precise forms of this introspection which one can practice.

Now I have transformed these character traits I had when I was younger along with others into more constructive and or creative forms and feel the benefit all the time.
Click to expand...

So the way to TruthTM is to gaze inward?
 
punshhh said:
I appreciate the value of calculus, I use a system of thought similar to this.

Calculus has not provided us with omniscience, hence there are still Inconceivables.
Click to expand...

Unless we know everything we know nothing?
 
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