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My argument against materialism

dlorde said:
As I said, that is why we use science. It removes that perceptual bias.

Incidentally, as has already been mentioned, our senses are the means by which we sense, not conceive the information that allows us to perceive our surroundings.
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Thanks for pointing that out,

by "apparatus of conceiving our surroundings ie, our senses", I mean the receiving devise itself, which is then used by the brain to receive information about the outside world. Which can then be processed.

I regard this part of the brain as separate from the thinking mind of a person.
 
Mashuna said:
Of course it's not inconceivable, it's just that when compared to science they haven't produced anything useful.
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They do produce usefull results for their practitioners. However they have always been a minority of the population.

Science is king these days, especially now that mamon (capitalism) is faltering.
 
dafydd said:
Give me a reference to a scientific demonstration of the event horizon of the formless.
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Will you stop going on about that, I told you it is only an idea.

I was a lad when the first planet of the apes movie came out and the closing sequence had a moving effect on me.
 
punshhh said:
They do produce usefull results for their practitioners. However they have always been a minority of the population.

Science is king these days, especially now that mamon (capitalism) is faltering.
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Do you have any examples of these useful results? I'd like to understand the kind of thing you're thinking of here.
 
yy2bggggs said:
We use the word "thinking" differently, and I think we do that because we have different understandings of what the brain does.

Not really. You're drawing a line that I think is not only arbitrary, but hard to locate, and perhaps best ignored. I personally think it's all thought, and all computation.

But maybe I'm missing something. So help me out.

When I see a red cup, am I thinking? My favorite cousin smile? My own smile in a mirror? What about a gray 2010 Toyota Prius? A 20 dollar bill? A calculus equation? A grammatically correct sentence? The word "copasetic"?

And if some of these are thought, why do you think your cat isn't doing it?
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I would say that in the act of recognition there is no thought involved as I use the word. The last three might require thought, if not clearly recognisable initially.

I observe my cat coming up against situations where she does not instantly recognise something. She stares and you can see her trying to figure it out, but she gets nowhere. She just waits until she is distracted and then does something else.

ETA: I must also state that the real physical world doesn't care about things like "pennies"; when I see a penny on a desk, that's already an abbreviation of the "real physical world" that's simply useful for my mind. To the "real physical world" there are just a bunch of atoms--and some of the "penny" leaks out into the air even, becoming the smell of copper in my brain.
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Yes the physical world is oblivious to pennies and the content of human brains etc. I wonder how it appears to a bacteria.
 
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punshhh said:
Will you stop going on about that, I told you it is only an idea.

I was a lad when the first planet of the apes movie came out and the closing sequence had a moving effect on me.
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I will stop when you explain the term or admit that it is meaningless gibberish.
 
punshhh said:
Yes we do have an advantage over the ant in that we have the ability to learn from experience and modify our behavior.

I can see no way in which this makes us any different, there are still things which are inconceivable to us. We are just a bit further along the evolutionary tree.
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Which things would these be?
 
punshhh said:
Minimising this problem is one of the first steps in mysticism too. One cannot step onto the spiritual path without having taken off your blinkers. You would stumble and fall over at the first step.

Come on Pixy I am not like the run of mill religious cranks you might come across on this forum. I am the real thing, I have been contemplating these ideas for years, this is basic stuff.

Is it inconceivable that there are other schools of thought along the same lines as materialism, but not science based?
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You have to have a lobotomy to walk the spiritual path. Your contemplation has not paid off,you would have employed your time more profitably in learning things. You are a run of the mill crank or a troll.
 
punshhh said:
Will you stop going on about that, I told you it is only an idea.

I was a lad when the first planet of the apes movie came out and the closing sequence had a moving effect on me.
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Yes,I got out of the cinema quickly too after seeing that awful film.
 
punshhh said:
Yes we do have an advantage over the ant in that we have the ability to learn from experience and modify our behavior.

I can see no way in which this makes us any different, there are still things which are inconceivable to us. We are just a bit further along the evolutionary tree.
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If they're inconceivable to us how is it that you have conceived them?
 
punshhh said:
I would say that in the act of recognition there is no thought involved as I use the word. The last three might require thought, if not clearly recognisable initially.

I observe my cat coming up against situations where she does not instantly recognise something. She stares and you can see her trying to figure it out, but she gets nowhere. She just waits until she is distracted and then does something else.



Yes the physical world is oblivious to pennies and the content of human brains etc. I wonder how it appears to a bacteria.
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Ask the next one you meet.
 
tsig said:
If they're inconceivable to us how is it that you have conceived them?
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I have not conceived any things which are inconceivable to me, I accept they are there, or should I say here.

There are some on this forum who deny that there are inconceivable things for humans.

By now you might have an inkling about what I am concerned with.

It is intellectual orientation or perspective that I am interested in, along with some conception of humanities and my own position in the scheme of things.
It is all positioning and awareness of true positions.
 
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punshhh said:
Minimising this problem is one of the first steps in mysticism too.
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Baloney.

Come on Pixy I am not like the run of mill religious cranks you might come across on this forum. I am the real thing, I have been contemplating these ideas for years, this is basic stuff.
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It's basic baloney.

Is it inconceivable that there are other schools of thought along the same lines as materialism, but not science based?
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
punshhh said:
I have not conceived any things which are inconceivable to me, I accept they are there, or should I say here.

There are some on this forum who deny that there are inconceivable things for humans.

By now you might have an inkling about what I am concerned with.

It is intellectual orientation or perspective that I am interested in, along with some conception of humanities and my own position in the scheme of things.
It is all positioning and awareness of true positions.
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The universe isn't all about you. Get over it.

There, now you know your position in the scheme of things.
 
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