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My argument against materialism

punshhh said:
Thanks, I have already looked at these.

Really in order to discuss materialism with a materialist, surely it would be more precise for said materialist to state their position more precisely.
Otherwise I am faced with a moving target which keeps hiding behind science .
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We have science on one hand,and on the other religion and the occult. Which one describes the universe?
 
punshhh said:
For example, humanity tends to assume that reality is what can be detected by experience. This is not necessarily so, the reality we perceive may be a reflection of a peculiarity of our own nature.

I sometimes adopt the position that other entities may perceive reality in a very different way to us. While coexisting and interacting as in a common understanding of experience.
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If there are entities of this nature, then you can never hope to understand them in any way outside of the tenants of science and reason, and advances in science. Religion and spiritual dogma will not offer insight into such nature, they will only offer self affirmation and self assertion through pretending.
 
Halfcentaur said:
If there are entities of this nature, then you can never hope to understand them in any way outside of the tenants of science and reason, and advances in science. Religion and spiritual dogma will not offer insight into such nature, they will only offer self affirmation and self assertion through pretending.
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Yes this is largely true, I am not seeking to understand them, but rather myself and through this know them better.
 
punshhh said:
This process is what is known as the spiritual path.
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No,it is called lifting yourself up by your bootstraps. Which cultural form of spirituality is the correct one? Hindu,Chinese,Hopi,Christian,Islam,Buddhism,Sumerian,Egyptian,Minoan,Gnostic,Sufi.....etc. They all contradict each other. There is only one science.
 
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dafydd said:
No,it is called lifting yourself up by your bootstraps. Which cultural form of spirituality is the correct one? Hindu,Chinese,Hopi,Christian,Islam,Buddhism,Sumerian,Egyptian,Minoan,Gnostic,Sufi.....etc. They all contradict each other. There is only one science.
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These traditions are all a good starting point take your pick (I include science).
 
dafydd said:
Play let's pretend then. I prefer reality.
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Perhaps we should return to the OP, I have no argument against materialism.

I would point out though that materialism only appears to describe the physical processes of "matter" and apart from this little else about existence.
 
punshhh said:
For example, humanity tends to assume that reality is what can be detected by experience. This is not necessarily so, the reality we perceive may be a reflection of a peculiarity of our own nature.

I sometimes adopt the position that other entities may perceive reality in a very different way to us. While coexisting and interacting as in a common understanding of experience.
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Less interesting. I did ask if you could provide an example of using glasses, and an example of using mirrors, when considering what cannot be tested by science.
 
punshhh said:
These traditions are all a good starting point take your pick (I include science).
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The Hopis believe that the world was created by the Spider Woman. Should I start there and in which direction would that take me?
 
punshhh said:
For example, humanity tends to assume that reality is what can be detected by experience.
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Yes, and rightly so. All that we have is a direct result of that assumption.

punshhh said:
This is not necessarily so, the reality we perceive may be a reflection of a peculiarity of our own nature.
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What now?

punshhh said:
I sometimes adopt the position that other entities may perceive reality in a very different way to us. While coexisting and interacting as in a common understanding of experience.
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Meaningless drivel.
 
punshhh said:
If one is going to "know thyself", one is required to establish a position of understanding of reality and one's position therein, one's own nature and limitations* and a system of reasoning which can be tested through personal experience. Thus establishing a personal philosophy which is continually added to and refined by experience.

*By limitations I refer to the necessity to tackle the peculiarities of one's own personality and emotions and metaphorically rise above one's personal psyche into an intellectual state of clear (relatively) thought.
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punshhh said:
This process is what is known as the spiritual path.
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Oh, the spiritual path! How nice. And that leads where, exactly? I'll tell you, because it seems you haven't got that one figured out just yet: absolutely nowhere.
 
punshhh said:
These traditions are all a good starting point take your pick (I include science).
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Pick according to what? Like you've been told, some of those are contradictory. Do you understand what that means? You can't just handwave it all away by saying "all are equally valid and take your pick". On the other hand, they are in a sense equally valid in that they are all invalid (except science, of course). So which is it?
 
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