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My argument against materialism

That seems to be the nub of the matter.

I dunno - he tried to avoid admitting his original error by blustering and distraction - after all, what do the Religion & Philosophy forum members know about physics? Now he's been backed into a corner, he's off trying to cook up something more obscure. If he knew why we were all wrong, he should have been able to explain why right at the outset, without all this "It's coming!" nonsense.
 
I dunno - he tried to avoid admitting his original error by blustering and distraction - after all, what do the Religion & Philosophy forum members know about physics? Now he's been backed into a corner, he's off trying to cook up something more obscure. If he knew why we were all wrong, he should have been able to explain why right at the outset, without all this "It's coming!" nonsense.
Perhaps his equations are under copyright.
 
This thread is closed for cleaning. Please come back later when it will be safe for you to enter again.

Ok, it's clean now. Someone made a big mess over there in the corner and left it to molder. That's what was causing that musty smell. Please make no more messes and I won't have to do this again, and I won't have to get very cross with you all. Play nice, keep it civil and on topic. The topic is materialism - not the other posters or their poetry. Am I clear? Good.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

I hope your wore a hazmat suit! Best wishes!
 
Not specifically, and I will show why later. I do have a life but will get to it soon.

Yes, Pixy when I wrote the previous post I misfired, I was tired and inserted an incorrect word. In EM, unlike charges attract, unlike charges repel and neutral charges don't interact. Are we okay now, about this?
Yes, thank you.

So, let's take two objects, negatively charged at one end and positively charged at the other. The net charge on each one is zero.

If we push the two negatively charged ends together, what is the resulting force (again, considering only electromagnetism)?

1. Attraction
2. Repulsion
3. Zero

I could also knock you on some of your misfires.
When I misfire - and it happens - I promptly acknowledge it.
 
Yes, thank you.

So, let's take two objects, negatively charged at one end and positively charged at the other. The net charge on each one is zero.

If we push the two negatively charged ends together, what is the resulting force (again, considering only electromagnetism)?

1. Attraction
2. Repulsion
3. Zero


When I misfire - and it happens - I promptly acknowledge it.

Ken,will you please answer that question?
 
Bizarre Mechanics!

Don't those mean the same things, here? Gravity is a downward force, electromagnetism repels you from the ground, thereby canceling the continuing force of gravity that would otherwise pull you into the core of the earth.

You obviously believe it works differently. Could you get to your explanation?

ehcks, firstly gravity isn't simply a downwards or even an inwards one but I'll explain this later. But your assertion and that of similar ones by others: "electromagnetism repels you from the ground, thereby canceling the continuing force of gravity that would otherwise pull you into the core of the earth" is nonsense.

Gravity is NOT all powerful everywhere. It has what is referred to as a "gravitational constant." Physicist have done experiments to measure it and it has a value (look it up). This constant is a multiplier of the masses in question. See even Newton's simpler equation vs Einstein's. To make a long story short, the mass/energy/density of the Earth isn't high enough to "pull you into the core of the earth" or as is implicated to form a black hole.

Secondly, the idea that in neutrally charged objects like humans and the ground there is an EM repulsion that repels us from the ground, thereby canceling the force of gravity, is nonsense. Neutral particles don't repel each other. There isn't any such thing as this sort of so-called "quantum mechanical EM repulsion." We understand the EM force via quantum mechanic's Standard Model. The people who think neutral particles/objects repel have no idea what they are up against. It's not me! It's the Standard Model. It is incomplete but is one of the most successfully tested models in the history of physics!

Further, you can't use vector mechanics to solve problems of a quantum mechanical nature. Also, PixyMisa has clearly stated this EM repulsion (of the form in discussion) is "universally" accepted by physicists. He hasn't, nor has anyone cited even one clear specific reference. All I've seen are general articles on EM or some other subject, including the recent bizarre ones about vector mechanics! How can it be "universally" accepted?

I hope this answers your question.
 
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To make a long story short, the mass/energy/density of the Earth isn't high enough to "pull you into the core of the earth" or as is implicated to form a black hole.

I'd really like to hear you expand on this. You say the mass of the Earth isn't high enough for the Earth to form into a black hole. But why not? What is preventing the Earth from condensing into one? And if your answer is that there just isn't enough mass, then how much mass (and this should involve some calculations) is required to form a black hole?

Further, you can't use vector mechanics to solve problems of a quantum mechanical nature. Also, PixyMisa has clearly stated this EM repulsion (of the form in discussion) is "universally" accepted by physicists. He hasn't, nor has anyone cited even one clear specific reference. All I've seen are general articles on EM or some other subject, including the recent bizarre ones about vector mechanics! How can it be "universally" accepted?

I'm going to assume that you've read up on the electromagnetic normal force. But here's another reference, just for fun.

The Stability of Matter
Why matter neither collapses nor explodes
Richard Lipkin
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/1995/148-16/14816-15.pdf
 
ehcks, firstly gravity isn't simply a downwards or even an inwards one but I'll explain this later.
You seem to have a lot of things to explain later.

But your assertion and that of similar ones by others: "electromagnetism repels you from the ground, thereby canceling the continuing force of gravity that would otherwise pull you into the core of the earth" is nonsense.
Newton's Laws of Motion, Ken. F=ma. ehks is 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.

Gravity is NOT all powerful everywhere.
Irrelevant.

It has what is referred to as a "gravitational constant."
Irrelevant to the question and irrelevant to the previous point.

Physicist have done experiments to measure it and it has a value (look it up).
Irrelevant.

This constant is a multiplier of the masses in question.
Irrelevant.

See even Newton's simpler equation vs Einstein's.
Irrelevant.

To make a long story short, the mass/energy/density of the Earth isn't high enough to "pull you into the core of the earth" or as is implicated to form a black hole.
We know that, Ken.

But why isn't the mass of the Earth enough to cause it to collapse into a black hole? What is the force that is counterbalancing gravity?

Secondly, the idea that in neutrally charged objects like humans and the ground there is an EM repulsion that repels us from the ground, thereby canceling the force of gravity, is nonsense.
You are, of course, making a terrible error here.

Let's take two objects, negatively charged at one end and positively charged at the other. The net charge on each one is zero.

If we push the two negatively charged ends together, what is the resulting force (again, considering only electromagnetism)?

1. Attraction
2. Repulsion
3. Zero

Neutral particles don't repel each other.
No, neutral particles don't. This is, of course, irrelevant.

There isn't any such thing as this sort of so-called "quantum mechanical EM repulsion."
100% wrong.

We understand the EM force via quantum mechanic's Standard Model.
No, we understand it through classical and quantum electrodynamics.

The people who think neutral particles/objects repel have no idea what they are up against.
We know exactly what we're up against, Ken. Answer my question above, and you will too.

It's not me! It's the Standard Model. It is incomplete but is one of the most successfully tested models in the history of physics!
As I said earlier, you seem to have arrived at the Standard Model without passing through Kepler, Galileo, or Newton. What you are proposing is completely impossible in every imaginable way, and scientists have known this for centuries.

Further, you can't use vector mechanics to solve problems of a quantum mechanical nature.
Ultimately, everything is of a quantum mechanical nature, and yet we use vector mechanics just fine.

Also, PixyMisa has clearly stated this EM repulsion (of the form in discussion) is "universally" accepted by physicists.
Actually, everyone in the thread has told you that. We've even had a working physicist (Sol Invictus) come in and tell you the same thing.

He hasn't, nor has anyone cited even one clear specific reference.
We have, you have simply been unable to understand them. That's why I'm asking you very, very simple questions to try to guide you forwards.

All I've seen are general articles on EM or some other subject, including the recent bizarre ones about vector mechanics!
Which you apparently haven't read or understood.

How can it be "universally" accepted?
Because it's true. It's the foundation of all of engineering and materials science. It's taught in every decent high school on the planet.

I hope this answers your question.
It explains that you don't understand Newtonian Mechanics, yes.
 
ehcks, firstly gravity isn't simply a downwards or even an inwards one but I'll explain this later. But your assertion and that of similar ones by others: "electromagnetism repels you from the ground, thereby canceling the continuing force of gravity that would otherwise pull you into the core of the earth" is nonsense.

Gravity is NOT all powerful everywhere. It has what is referred to as a "gravitational constant." Physicist have done experiments to measure it and it has a value (look it up). This constant is a multiplier of the masses in question. See even Newton's simpler equation vs Einstein's. To make a long story short, the mass/energy/density of the Earth isn't high enough to "pull you into the core of the earth" or as is implicated to form a black hole.

Secondly, the idea that in neutrally charged objects like humans and the ground there is an EM repulsion that repels us from the ground, thereby canceling the force of gravity, is nonsense. Neutral particles don't repel each other. There isn't any such thing as this sort of so-called "quantum mechanical EM repulsion." We understand the EM force via quantum mechanic's Standard Model. The people who think neutral particles/objects repel have no idea what they are up against. It's not me! It's the Standard Model. It is incomplete but is one of the most successfully tested models in the history of physics!

Further, you can't use vector mechanics to solve problems of a quantum mechanical nature. Also, PixyMisa has clearly stated this EM repulsion (of the form in discussion) is "universally" accepted by physicists. He hasn't, nor has anyone cited even one clear specific reference. All I've seen are general articles on EM or some other subject, including the recent bizarre ones about vector mechanics! How can it be "universally" accepted?

I hope this answers your question.

If the question is "does Ken understand physics?" then the answer is no. You are always going to explain later. Why not now. If you are going to convince the scientific world that your theory (whatever it is) is correct,then you are going to have to present it in a coherent form,complete with some of that tricky maths stuff. All you have done so far is automatically gainsay every point that has been put to you. Science does not work like that. What experiments have you done to confirm your theory?
 
Actually, everyone in the thread has told you that. We've even had a working physicist (Sol Invictus) come in and tell you the same thing.

Ken,do you really think that you know more about physics than Sol Invictus? Where did you study physics and what are your qualifications?
 
It's Item per Item, Not Heros or Personalities!

Ken,do you really think that you know more about physics than Sol Invictus? Where did you study physics and what are your qualifications?

I studied my physics in our universe. I don't think that your hero, Sol Invictus, needs you to speak for him. Why do you? He can come back on line. I hope he does ... I've some unanswered questions about what he's posted!

Why do you keep on bitching? I want substance not more of your nonsense, like Vector Mechanics and all the math! Let's get real!
 
I studied my physics in our universe. I don't think that your hero, Sol Invictus, needs you to speak for him. Why do you? He can come back on line. I hope he does ... I've some unanswered questions about what he's posted!

Why do you keep on bitching? I want substance not more of your nonsense, like Vector Mechanics and all the math! Let's get real!

Maths is nonsense,that says it all. I'm not speaking for Sol Invictus, just pointing out that he has studied physics and you have not. How can you pontificate about a subject that you know nothing about? Nobody here takes you seriously,all you are doing is amusing us.
 
Please Clearly Post What This Thing Is!

Yes, thank you.

So, let's take two objects, negatively charged at one end and positively charged at the other. The net charge on each one is zero.

If we push the two negatively charged ends together, what is the resulting force (again, considering only electromagnetism)?

1. Attraction
2. Repulsion
3. Zero

Your question is interesting. I assume you are referring to electrically charged dipole objects/particles. The problem is there isn’t any known thing as an electrical dipole. Here is the background. The electromagnetic union or force was determined in the 19th century. In the 20th century it was quantized i.e. it became part of quantum mechanics. We know that magnetic dipoles objects/particles exist such as common bar magnets. However electrically charged dipoles such as you suggest have never been seen/detected. Electrons and protons, for example & known to exist, only carry a single electrical charge; hence they are monopoles. The question is why should there be this asymmetry between the magnetic and electrical particles? Here is another way to express it: where are all the expected counterpart magnetic monopoles particles? It is the missing magnetic monopoles problem.

One answer comes from the hot/inflationary big bang theory. It claims that in the very hot, early universe magnetic monopoles were abundant but were scattered via the process of inflation beyond our observational horizons. Okay but we don’t really know what the temperature/energy of the early universe was (it is theoretically modeled). Also the process of inflation is speculative (although it provides answers to some observations/detections).

The bottom line is if we ever find two objects that are electrical dipoles and bring them together in any fashion EM theory requires they act in principle like known dipole magnets. I hope this answers your speculative scenario


When I misfire - and it happens - I promptly acknowledge it.

Okay that sounds good. Are you willing to promptly acknowledge that this so called EM repulsion is not universally accepted by physicist? I can't find a single specific reference to it. I've asked ... oh ... I've repeatedly asked! All I've seen are general articles on EM, unrelated stuff like the recent vector mechanics references. Come on ... let's get real! Why can't you cite a single specific reference to this stuff?

Further, I'm supposed to critique a theory that hasn't even been published? All I can do is answer to a bunch of disconnected ideas. Before I do ... to be fair ... why don't you post a clear and concise post on what this thing is? Still ... there's no reason, unless you prove otherwise, that your version is any better than anyone else's who are wolfing against anything I post.
 
Your question is interesting. I assume you are referring to electrically charged dipole objects/particles.
No.

Anything. Any arbitrary object. Positive charge at one end, negative at the other, bring the negative ends together. What is the direction of the net force?

Okay that sounds good. Are you willing to promptly acknowledge that this so called EM repulsion is not universally accepted by physicist?
Of course not. It is universally accepted by physicists. And chemists and material scientists and engineers, and, basically, anyone who has had a decent introduction to physics.

As I've noted several times, your position was proven false - not just false but completely impossible - by Isaac Newton over 300 years ago. Time to catch up.
 
Math is Not Necessarily Equivalent to Physical Reality

Maths is nonsense,that says it all. I'm not speaking for Sol Invictus, just pointing out that he has studied physics and you have not. How can you pontificate about a subject that you know nothing about? Nobody here takes you seriously,all you are doing is amusing us.

Mathematics is not all nonsense. Are you hallucinating? Yes math is important but it isn't the be all and end all. Math can only tell us what might be right. The universe has its path and we try to use theory (including math, guesses and limited observations/detections) to frame it. Just because someone writes some math isn't any guarantee it applies to physics.

You are the joker and the hero worshipper! Sol can speak for himself. Why don't you try it? Please find some backbone. You can do it! I'm trying to encourage you. There's no need for you to keep dropping Sol's name!
 
Okay that sounds good. Are you willing to promptly acknowledge that this so called EM repulsion is not universally accepted by physicist? I can't find a single specific reference to it. I've asked ... oh ... I've repeatedly asked! All I've seen are general articles on EM, unrelated stuff like the recent vector mechanics references. Come on ... let's get real! Why can't you cite a single specific reference to this stuff?

Promise that you'll read the references?

Really Ken, the problem isn't that this is obscure physics, it's that it's so basic that most sources gloss over it. We've got gravity. But gravity doesn't simply crush all mass into singularities. There must be a force responsible for this. If you (and you alone.. completely and absolutely alone) don't think so, I hope it's for a better reason than simply 'standing by convictions'.

This thread is starting to make me sad.
 

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