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Mushroom Cloud and Pyroclastic Flow

Well, I will say this in TruthSeeker1234's defense, he has stopped using "mushroom cloud" and "pyroclastic flow". He has learned the proper meaning of these terms and is willing to let them go.



Yeah ... that's temporary. There was a short while where he stopped referring to the pile of debris from the towers as a crater, but now he's back to that. Any improvement he makes is purely temporary, and cosmetic.
 
Well, he stopped using them last time we had a similar discussion, too. Only to revive them later. But I don't mind the term fizzies. I just think they were better applied to other things in the CT world ;).

Hans

No, Hans. "Fizzies" is something different from the pyroclastic flow, which is something different from the mushroom cloud. I began this thread because so many posters were conflating the mushroom cloud with the pyroclastic flows. Now you're conflating the fizzies. I use fizzies to refer to the dustifying pieces of steel.

The current "official" definition of "pyroclastic flow" typically specifies a volcanic origin, so the 9/11 events would be excluded by this definition. However, prior to 9/11, this phenomenon had never been observed, except in volcanoes. 9/11 changed that. The reason that the dust-fluid flow from the twin tower events looked like a pyroclastic flow, is that the same factors were at play: A source of solid material, and a tremendous amount of heat energy to render it into a cloud of fine, dense powder, and expand that cloud into characteristic cauliflower shapes that flow downhill rapidly while continuing to expand.

Another poster suggested the term "density flow". Perhaps.

Mushroom cloud refers to what happens to the smoke. It is above the tower. During the "collapse", it begins expanding and rising.

Fizzies are the steel pieces that trail dust, and appear to be disintegrating into dust,while behaving very energetically. They look like rockets. They are hard to miss. This dust material becomes the pyroclastic flow, but fizzies refers specifically to the dustifying steel.

Hope that clears it up.
 
Hope that clears it up.
In a word, no.

Maybe once I understand how steel is "dustified" and how "pyroclastic flow", which had never been observed prior to 9/11, already had a name and a definition, among other things, I'll be "clear".
 
No, Hans. "Fizzies" is something different from the pyroclastic flow, which is something different from the mushroom cloud. I began this thread because so many posters were conflating the mushroom cloud with the pyroclastic flows. Now you're conflating the fizzies. I use fizzies to refer to the dustifying pieces of steel.

The current "official" definition of "pyroclastic flow" typically specifies a volcanic origin, so the 9/11 events would be excluded by this definition. However, prior to 9/11, this phenomenon had never been observed, except in volcanoes. 9/11 changed that. The reason that the dust-fluid flow from the twin tower events looked like a pyroclastic flow, is that the same factors were at play: A source of solid material, and a tremendous amount of heat energy to render it into a cloud of fine, dense powder, and expand that cloud into characteristic cauliflower shapes that flow downhill rapidly while continuing to expand.

Another poster suggested the term "density flow". Perhaps.

Mushroom cloud refers to what happens to the smoke. It is above the tower. During the "collapse", it begins expanding and rising.

Fizzies are the steel pieces that trail dust, and appear to be disintegrating into dust,while behaving very energetically. They look like rockets. They are hard to miss. This dust material becomes the pyroclastic flow, but fizzies refers specifically to the dustifying steel.

Hope that clears it up.


Grrrr. Pyroclastic flow is characterised by extremely hot gases (500-1000 C). This was not observed in New York.

Mushroom has nothing to do with expansion, but everything to do with rotation and other distribution patterns. This was not observed in New York.

I had complimented you earlier for apparently understanding this. I may be forced to take that back. Stop using these terms inappropriately.
 
No, Hans. "Fizzies" is something different from the pyroclastic flow, which is something different from the mushroom cloud. I began this thread because so many posters were conflating the mushroom cloud with the pyroclastic flows. Now you're conflating the fizzies. I use fizzies to refer to the dustifying pieces of steel.

The current "official" definition of "pyroclastic flow" typically specifies a volcanic origin, so the 9/11 events would be excluded by this definition. However, prior to 9/11, this phenomenon had never been observed, except in volcanoes. 9/11 changed that. The reason that the dust-fluid flow from the twin tower events looked like a pyroclastic flow, is that the same factors were at play: A source of solid material, and a tremendous amount of heat energy to render it into a cloud of fine, dense powder, and expand that cloud into characteristic cauliflower shapes that flow downhill rapidly while continuing to expand.

Another poster suggested the term "density flow". Perhaps.

Mushroom cloud refers to what happens to the smoke. It is above the tower. During the "collapse", it begins expanding and rising.

Fizzies are the steel pieces that trail dust, and appear to be disintegrating into dust,while behaving very energetically. They look like rockets. They are hard to miss. This dust material becomes the pyroclastic flow, but fizzies refers specifically to the dustifying steel.

Hope that clears it up.

It is not a pyroclastic flow. A pyroclastic flow, as has been pointed out numerous times, is characteristic of volcanoes and volcanoes only. Even if it was a pyroclastic flow (Which is a ridiculous notion in the first place) what exactly would that prove?

That the towers were taken out by a volcano? Do the powers that be now control natural disasters? Come on man.
 
... the pyroclastic flow... the mushroom cloud. ... the mushroom cloud ... the pyroclastic flows. ... "pyroclastic flow" ... a pyroclastic flow,...Mushroom cloud ... the pyroclastic flow,

Hope that clears it up.


Oh yes, I'm sure it does.


I had complimented you earlier for apparently understanding this. I may be forced to take that back. Stop using these terms inappropriately.



I did warn you. Welcome to the wonderful wacky world of TS1234. Sisyphus sends his greetings.
 
<snip>
Fizzies are the steel pieces that trail dust, and appear to be disintegrating into dust,while behaving very energetically. They look like rockets. They are hard to miss. This dust material becomes the pyroclastic flow, but fizzies refers specifically to the dustifying steel.

Hope that clears it up.

Please describe the process/algorithm whereby a neutral third-party, who is completely unfamiliar with the material in question, could recognize your "fizzies". In doing so, please make sure to include the characterists that are unique to "fizzies" and could not be the result of other sources.
 
snippity

Fizzies are the steel pieces that trail dust, and appear to be disintegrating into dust,while behaving very energetically. They look like rockets. They are hard to miss. This dust material becomes the pyroclastic flow, but fizzies refers specifically to the dustifying steel.

Hope that clears it up.


TS, thanks for this post. It did clear things up somewhat for me, and it helps to know just what threads like this are all about. Appreciated.
 
"Dustifying steel." Yup, I'm going to put this on the air. It's going to follow the slot featuring the guy who runs naked through supermarkets flapping his arms and screaming "Fire!"
 
"Dustifying steel." Yup, I'm going to put this on the air. It's going to follow the slot featuring the guy who runs naked through supermarkets flapping his arms and screaming "Fire!"

Not only does the steel "dustify", it also disapears completely and hides completely from dust samplings at Ground Zero.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again -

The only answer to the 'dustifying steel' conundrum is nano grinding-wheels. Billions of 'em.

Micro 'nano grinding-wheel' manufacturing plants could easily have been slipped into the core structure. Built from the building's own materials, the nano grinders could be left to accumulate till given the signal to get to work.

(I'd post this at LCF to see how it would run, but I'm banned. If anyone fancies it, feel free)
 
Please describe the process/algorithm whereby a neutral third-party, who is completely unfamiliar with the material in question, could recognize your "fizzies". In doing so, please make sure to include the characterists that are unique to "fizzies" and could not be the result of other sources.

Fizzy1.gif


Fizzies are individual pieces of falling debris which trail voluminous quantities of opaque dust behind them. The trailing dust does not cease. Rather, it continues to be produced from the falling piece of debris throughout its journey to the ground.
 

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