Multiculturalism is an enriching experience!

[Arcade22]

Then history disagrees with you that the children growing up anywhere near those would become "worthless criminal parasites".

Yeah, kids growing up in an environment where crime and violence is much more commonplace are not much more likely to grow up criminals themselves...

LOL... What? Of all the idiotic reasons I've heard for being against immigrants, that has to top them all. Your problem is that you don't understand someone else's private conversations on the bus? Heh. What are you, the village busybody who just has to know what everyone else is talking about? Or what?

No, I'm bothered that they cant speak SWEDISH in SWEDEN. If i were to move to China i would speak Chinese not Swedish. Why can't they show the same respect?

Wait, of all things one could be upset about when hearing about an assault, your first and biggest problem is the accent? So if someone gets mugged by someone with perfect accent, is it any better?

No, what i meant is that i am tired of the fact that immigrants are committing so much crime here in Sweden.

 

[Einzig]

No, I'm bothered that they cant speak SWEDISH in SWEDEN. If i were to move to China i would speak Chinese not Swedish. Why can't they show the same respect?

You'd probably need a lot of time learning the language first, or do you insinuate you would instantly have a correct pronunciation of Chinese?
Having an accent means they are learning, which is what you want and what they want.

 

[Einzig]

No, what i meant is that i am tired of the fact that immigrants are committing so much crime here in Sweden.

Do you insinuate that people with certain skin color are genetically inclined to commit crime? Or do you agree that relative poverty and the social democrats placing asylum seekers in the same locations, slowing the process of learning the language and thus getting a job, which is already not a picnic in Sweden caused this?

You started a topic on this, like you want to discuss the issue, but are you really open to evaluating any arguments that go against your opinion? Have you had personal incidents perhaps that anger you so much, if I may ask?

 

[332nd]

No, but I'd rather live in a place where the far, far, majority of people are ethnic Swedes and thus reduce the risk of being assaulted or robbed.

So you'd just look at the fact that they had the same ethnic qualities as you and not the crime rate?

 

[Arcade22]

Do you insinuate that people with certain skin color are genetically inclined to commit crime?

Nope, i just note the fact that the people who come from Africa, especially North Africa, and west Asia, are much more likely to be involved in crime.

Do you deny this?

Or do you agree that relative poverty and the social democrats placing asylum seekers in the same locations, slowing the process of learning the language and thus getting a job, which is already not a picnic in Sweden caused this?

First of all, the government doesn't place so called 'asylum seekers' (the far majority of those who come to Sweden as asylum seekers or refuges do not fit the criteria give by the UN)
in the ghettos, and most of them moved there, on their own accord, even if there is scarce amounts of housing and work available.

Why would they live anywhere else? They live in a place just like back home in Somalia or Iraq. The people look like them, speak their language and worship the same god as them.
They don't have to work because we dumb ****ing Swedes just keep giving away our welfare to them. It must be a dream come true!

Secondly, not having a job is hardly a defense for committing crime.

You started a topic on this, like you want to discuss the issue, but are you really open to evaluating any arguments that go against your opinion?

I am open for debate but the majority of the arguments put forth here have been thoroughly discussed on another forum where i also post.

Have you had personal incidents perhaps that anger you so much, if I may ask?

Yes, i have been assaulted and robbed, and my father once got assaulted, and knocked unconscious, on an open street by a gang of

Edited by LashL: 

to properly mask profanity

****skinned immigrants.

What a personal blessing immigration and multiculturalism has been for me!

 

[Arcade22]

So you'd just look at the fact that they had the same ethnic qualities as you and not the crime rate?

Both. And since crime and ethnicity correlates quite nicely i just look up the place where there are few immigrants.

 

[TraneWreck]

Hmm, this is one of the most confounding issues.

On the one hand, anyone with a basic commitment to decency recognizes that worldwide standards of living are a disgrace. Those nations that have, out of respect for human dignity, should hep those that have not.

But on the other hand, we have Sweden, a country where the citizens have decided to offer one another an awesome standard of living. Their small population is taking on massive numbers of people from poorer nations. Right now we have one country that works and people flooding in from countries that don't. Is the world a better place if Sweden fails under that burden? Are worldwide human-rights standards increased if the Scandinavian nations crumble and turn into Los Angelas?

When I'm at my grumpiest I also get angry at people flooding from broken nations to thriving ones instead of staying where they are and trying to fix it. Sure, it would result in death and tragedy, but I thrive in America because a group of people at the end of the 18th century decided to risk death and tragedy to build this country for me.

I guess I'm anti-immigration? But why escape from your broken, shi--y nation only to set up the exact same social structure in the new one?

 

[332nd]

Both. And since crime and ethnicity correlates quite nicely i just look up the place where there are few immigrants.

Even if there's a place that's ethnic and has low crime?

 

[TraneWreck]

Even if there's a place that's ethnic and has low crime?

Does Japan count?

 

[332nd]

Hmm, this is one of the most confounding issues.

On the one hand, anyone with a basic commitment to decency recognizes that worldwide standards of living are a disgrace. Those nations that have, out of respect for human dignity, should hep those that have not.

But on the other hand, we have Sweden, a country where the citizens have decided to offer one another an awesome standard of living. Their small population is taking on massive numbers of people from poorer nations. Right now we have one country that works and people flooding in from countries that don't. Is the world a better place if Sweden fails under that burden? Are worldwide human-rights standards increased if the Scandinavian nations crumble and turn into Los Angelas?

When I'm at my grumpiest I also get angry at people flooding from broken nations to thriving ones instead of staying where they are and trying to fix it. Sure, it would result in death and tragedy, but I thrive in America because a group of people at the end of the 18th century decided to risk death and tragedy to build this country for me.

I guess I'm anti-immigration? But why escape from your broken, shi--y nation only to set up the exact same social structure in the new one?

Because you assume that's what they are doing?

 

[TraneWreck]

Because you assume that's what they are doing?

Well, if you're arguing that such a desire to import one's native rules isn't universal, I don't disagree. But it's more than obvious that some percentage of the Muslim population flooding into Europe is trying very hard to re-estblish Sharia rules.

Scandinavian countries voluntarily bring in huge numbers of refugees, give them housing, intense psychological assistance, and find them employment. But those nations aren't large. If the immigrant population doesn't contribute to society, it will break, and it's breaking.

I guess you could blame it on the destination country's unwillingness to assimilate the incoming groups, but that's just not true in Sweden and Denmark.

 

[332nd]

Well, if you're arguing that such a desire to import one's native rules isn't universal, I don't disagree. But it's more than obvious that some percentage of the Muslim population flooding into Europe is trying very hard to re-estblish Sharia rules.

Some percentage of whites in America are trying to reestablish Jim Crow laws. Some percentage of blacks in America are trying to establish drug empires. Some percentage of christians in America are trying to establish a Theocracy... Should we ban them?

Scandinavian countries voluntarily bring in huge numbers of refugees, give them housing, intense psychological assistance, and find them employment. But those nations aren't large. If the immigrant population doesn't contribute to society, it will break, and it's breaking.

They took yer jobs?!??!

I guess you could blame it on the destination country's unwillingness to assimilate the incoming groups, but that's just not true in Sweden and Denmark.

And all of this is based on the fact that they aren't Swedish or Danes?

 

[Cavemonster]

Well, if you're arguing that such a desire to import one's native rules isn't universal, I don't disagree. But it's more than obvious that some percentage of the Muslim population flooding into Europe is trying very hard to re-estblish Sharia rules.

Scandinavian countries voluntarily bring in huge numbers of refugees, give them housing, intense psychological assistance, and find them employment. But those nations aren't large. If the immigrant population doesn't contribute to society, it will break, and it's breaking.

I guess you could blame it on the destination country's unwillingness to assimilate the incoming groups, but that's just not true in Sweden and Denmark.

Like Arcade, I'll offer you the burden of creating a description of the burdens created by immigrants to scandinavia that couldn't also be levelled against the many waves of immigrants to america who have now full integrated.

A couple hundred years ago, the Irish were viewed as a subhuman race bringing their violence from their uncivilized land and crowding the streets in droves. Today, a suggestion that someone is less of an American, by dint of irish heritage just sounds silly. Irish, Italian, English, Dutch, and Eastern European jews, once seen as irreconcilably different cultures and ethnicities, are now unblinkingly lumped into "white".

 

[HansMustermann]

No, I'm bothered that they cant speak SWEDISH in SWEDEN. If i were to move to China i would speak Chinese not Swedish. Why can't they show the same respect?

So, I gather you're also against tourism? Or do you have some supernatural means to distinguish between the "gibberish" of immigrants on the bus, and that of tourists? You somehow instinctively and infallibly know that those guys on a bus in Stockholm are immigrants from Rinkeby and not, say, some tourists who came to see such Stockholm landmarks as the Skogskyrkogården cemetery?

Are you also against foreign trade? Because a ridiculous amount of foreigners in any industrial city are there on business purposes. And I might also point out that "business purposes" doesn't just mean the foreign banker driving a Bentley, but also the couple of poor gals from East Bumscrewistan there to be schooled in the fine art of making cheap cables for Volvo when they go back to their country.

Basically do you want isolationism?

Also, since not just language but even accent seems to bother you, are you also for Swedes staying at home instead of doing the booze tourism to Denmark, Germany and a couple of other places? Or does everyone who goes for cheaper booze there speak perfect Danish or German with a perfect Danish or German accent? Yes, I know Danish and Swedish are close enough to mostly understand each other, but does anyone take the time to get the few different words right for the natives' ears, and get the native accent juust right too?

Or is it ok when your countrymen offend the natives' ears, but not when someone offends yours?

 

[Arcade22]

Even if there's a place that's ethnic and has low crime?

No such area exists in Sweden.

 

[Arcade22]

Basically do you want isolationism?

There is a tiny difference between not allowing permanent immigration and allowing people to come here on vacation or some businesses deal.

 

[HansMustermann]

There is a tiny difference between not allowing permanent immigration and allowing people to come here on vacation or some businesses deal.

But you said your problem is with hearing people speaking "gibberish" on the bus. You still haven't answered to the question of how do you distinguish if those people speaking that "gibberish" are tourists or immigrants. And, really, please do explain the mechanism by which the same "gibberish" spoken by two arabic emigrants is offending your ears, but if it's by two arabic businessmen it doesn't.

 

[TraneWreck]

Some percentage of whites in America are trying to reestablish Jim Crow laws. Some percentage of blacks in America are trying to establish drug empires. Some percentage of christians in America are trying to establish a Theocracy... Should we ban them?

1) America is different, we're a nation of immigrants with a massive economy. Immigration does not affect us the same way it does small Scandinavian countries.
2) Absolutely we should stop them from attaining their goals.

They took yer jobs?!??!

No, they're literally causing the generous Scandinavian social structure to collapse. There are huge numbers of people, relative to the size of the nation, availing themselves of services without contributing to the system.

How would you recommend Sweden deal with this problem while maintaining what is among the best social systems in the world?

And all of this is based on the fact that they aren't Swedish or Danes?

Again, the Swedes and the Danes took in massive numbers of refugees from the Balkans, for example. They spent enormous sums of money relative to their economy to give those refugees better lives, and ultimately incorporated them into their systems through employment. Now they and their families are contributing--good investment.

But they can only do that for a certain number of people. What do we say to those who flood into nations with generous social structures and don't contribute (mostly because unlike America, those economies cannot provide much opportunity for "unskilled" labor)?

 

[TraneWreck]

Like Arcade, I'll offer you the burden of creating a description of the burdens created by immigrants to scandinavia that couldn't also be levelled against the many waves of immigrants to america who have now full integrated.

Sure, study the generous way the Scandinavian countries encorporated refugees from the Balkan and Czeck areas.

Obviously the best case scenario is one in which people can move freely between nations. But unlike the waves of immigration to America, the Scandinavian economies are tiny. To get to the point the Irish have reached in America may require the disentigration of the generous Scandinavian social structure.

Maybe that won't happen. The studies I've read are not optimistic given the current system. Either some new policy needs to emerge or Scandianavia will have to abandon some percentage of their programs.

A couple hundred years ago, the Irish were viewed as a subhuman race bringing their violence from their uncivilized land and crowding the streets in droves. Today, a suggestion that someone is less of an American, by dint of irish heritage just sounds silly. Irish, Italian, English, Dutch, and Eastern European jews, once seen as irreconcilably different cultures and ethnicities, are now unblinkingly lumped into "white".

Sure, but again, America is a massive country. Sweden has about the same population as New York City, and probably a smaller economy considering Wall Street and such. Additionally, our social structure dealing with those immigrants was basically to say, "Welcome to America, you're on your own." THus, there was incredible poverty and angst for those groups.

If you're arguing that Sweden should abandon its commitment to ending poverty within its borders and let the immigrants fend for themselves, then you've taken a coherent position. The choice is between significant immigration and a generous social system.

 

[jayh]

....
Ah but those problems are trivial when you realize that as time goes on the old guard dies and all of those wonderful DNAs mix, match, and becomes the sweet, sweet, nectar that flows through the veins of the likes of... Me... God I'm awesome.

Which is, actually, quote contrary to the philosophy of multiculturalism. As is often promoted, multiculturalism is more about 'preserving cultural identities' and opposing 'assimilation' rather than let nature take its course, both genetically and culturally.