Multi-level marketing

[Ramooone]

ok, now i've been a skeptic for a long time, but it doesn't run in the family especially for my sister.

my sister has been duped again by these multi-level marketers and this time its for the product "Reliv" http://www.reliv.com/

I know this product is ********, but my sister gets really offended when i try and tell her this. is there anyway i can convince her? or should i just let her lose a bunch of money and learn for herself, again.

my sister also says that the product works great for her and that she hasnt been healthier, even though she just got over a flu she had for about 2 weeks. but she still doesnt see the light.

 

[ImOne]

What's wrong with selling nutrition? Is it a bad product?

 

[Ramooone]

its basically a pyramid scheme, you have to get people to sign up underneath you and then you share in the profits they have and so on and so on. they also have some products on their website listed:

"Whether you're interested in athletic performance, weight loss, women's health, joint support, Relìv has a Functional Formula just right for you."

They make lots of health claims. http://www.reliv.com/us/inside/functionalformulas.html

but theres no research saying that it can actually do that. its fine as basic nutrition, if you don't eat well.

heres some of their "success" stories
http://www.reliv.com/us/inside/successtable.html

and i've sat through one of these presentations they do, its almost like a time share presentation. and when i started asking scientific questions they kept referring me to other people who could answer my questions, and when the last person couldnt answer my questions they pointed me to the website.

 

[Tarot_Is_A_Card_Game!]

I detest those Scamway scum. I can't tell you how much of my job hunting time was wasted responding to phony employment ads only to find it's a seminar where I was to "invest" in their products. I could have spent that time going to a legitimate interview. It appears that MLM has such a bad rep these days, some of these operators are stating in their ads "Not an MLM" When answering an "employment" ad for something that remotely resembles an MLM, I would advise asking over the phone if a monetary investment is required and if they cannot give you a straight answer to your question then don't waste your time going there.

 

[aargh57]

From your original post it seems your sister's been sucked into these types of things before and it sounds to me like she probably will again. I would just try to keep discussing these things with here rationaly but if she refuses to listen there's not much you can do.

 

[IsaacKoi]

my sister has been duped again by these multi-level marketers

If, as your comment appears to imply, your sister has been "duped" in the past by multi-level marketers then can't you simply point out similarities to her previous experiences?

How did those previous experiences turn out?

 

[Matilda]

My sympathies.
This is a good article explaining the problems with MLM. If you can get her to read it, it might help:
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

It does astonish me that people jump from one MLM to another. From what I can tell, they may spot some of the problems with the MLM that failed them before, but not with the very structure of MLM. Or even sadder, they blame themselves.

 

[BryanLower]

My parents have been involved in several MLMs, and have never made a dime off of them. They forked over far more money for the products and the motivational tapes than they ever received back. I think they've finally moved past this phase in their lives... I hope.

The MLMs are masterful at what they do. They start out by "dream building". They get their prospects to imagine all the wonderful things they could do if they were rich. Then they claim to have secret knowledge-- something the financial establishment doesn't want you to know. You don't have to make money the old fashioned way (by working hard and investing)! They have a business model that make you rich just by doing what you normally do: buying products and talking to your friends. They-- at least the smarter ones-- also point out how THEY are different from all those OTHER MLMs out there. Begin the testimonials. All of this is surrounded in religious rhetoric, particularly focusing on the passages of the bible that talk about prosperity.

For the unskeptical victim, this is all wonderful. They've had their expectations raised by the "dream building". They have been told how this MLM is different from all the other MLMs, so no matter how many times they have tried and failed, THIS is the one that will work!

It's really sad to watch it happen to a family member, but there really is not much you can do about it. You can give them a dose of reality, but it takes time for them to accept the truth. Hopefully by the time they see the light, they'll still have some money left.

 

[gfunkusarelius]

my parents sold "Reliv" for years. hell, they might still use it themselves. they dabbled with getting into some other similar things, and, ironically, they chided other family memebers that sold amway!!! they thought reliv was totally different. anyway, i am pretty sure they never really made any money (i am suspicious they lost money) they fell for all the standard crap described above...they felt they would never get wealthy from their "day jobs" and werent the types that could create their own legitimate opportunities, so they would try to find someone else who was "onto something" and ride with it.

the question i always ask myself (besides "is it too good to be true?") is, if the person hawking these "secrets" is so great, why are they telling everyone about it? ironically, since my parents are in real-estate, they see these infomercials for get-rich-in-real-estate and scoff at how misleading and ridiculous the claims are, but they cant seem to translate that experience into categories that they have less expertise in.

 

[tsg]

What's wrong with selling nutrition? Is it a bad product?

If it was a good product they wouldn't need a multi-level marketing scheme to sell it.

 

[CurtC]

They forked over far more money for the products and the motivational tapes than they ever received back.

A point that I think is important but sometimes lost is that these motivational tapes tell people that all they have to do is follow the guidelines, and they will make a ton of money. When the victims do work hard but fail to make money, these tapes have taught them that it's their own damn fault, not that the product is crappy, or the sales model is hopelessly flawed. No, it was your parents' fault that they are not now rich. I think that's sad.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

For what it's worth, I've used (and continue to use) several Amway products. I am in no way affiliated with the marketing aspect, but the products are pretty decent.

 

[Stellafane]

Ah, Amway...

Amway was responsible for my first oh-my-God-I'm-in-a-room-full-of-nuts situation. In my wayward youth I dropped out of college for a while and managed a convenience store. It didn't take long for me to start looking around for some more rewarding employment. This regular customer came in one day and mentioned this vague "business opportunity" he was getting involved in. In a "what the heck?" moment I accepted his invitation to go to an upcoming meeting as his guest. We went to this big function hall. You had to practically climb over the speaker's big expensive car parked right in front of the entrance to get in; I think this was designed to fill us with envy and longing for wealth and money. The guy was super slick of course, he came off as a nice version of the Alec Baldwin character in Glengarry Glen Ross.

My skeptical reflexes were nowhere near as developed as they are today, but even then the Amway pitch seemed problematic to me. The first thing that made me suspicious was that the speaker spent only a few minutes talking about Amway products, and devoted the rest of the time on how we could recruit others to the cause and how much money we'd make at it. It occured to me that unless someone somewhere actually sold something once in a while, where did the money come from? Afterward, my host immediately asked, "What was the best thing you liked about the presentation?" You know, to get me focused on the positive. Then he introduced me to a higher-up, who asked the exact same question in the exact same words. That's when I started to get creeped out -- it became obvious they actually train these guys in this stuff, even the casual small talk. I gotta give my younger self a bit of cred for the way I handled things; I remained non-commital enough to escape the evening unscathed, and resisted the increasingly frantic follow-up phone calls I received over the next couple of weeks. I suppose some good came out of it though -- it helped me see how limited my career options would be without a college education, so I went back and eventually finished my degree.

Since then, I've had several friends start in with the tell-tale pitch, which always begins something like "We're having some friends over to discuss a business opportunity." I learned from the seminar that they tell you not to explicitly mention Amway at first in case your guests are "close minded" about the company and may be under the delusion that they are, oh I don't know, a pyramid scheme or something. I always respond with "Sure, I'll come over. But at the first mention of Amway I will immediately walk out and never speak to you again." That usually ends the conversation on the spot.

BTW, I once heard that Amway is the fastest-growning American business in Japan. I have no idea whether that's true, but if it is, I guess you could consider it the long-delayed sequel to Fat Man and Little Boy.

 

[tsg]

For what it's worth, I've used (and continue to use) several Amway products. I am in no way affiliated with the marketing aspect, but the products are pretty decent.

I have read, but cannot confirm, that Amway products usually fair no better than other products which are considerably cheaper when tested by Consumer Reports. I believe their water filter was one that scored marginally higher than a Pur brand water filter but cost four times as much.

I'll have to see what I can dig up.

 

[Ramooone]

If, as your comment appears to imply, your sister has been "duped" in the past by multi-level marketers then can't you simply point out similarities to her previous experiences?

How did those previous experiences turn out?

they all turned out the same where she lost money. I try and point out to her that its happening again, but she says "oh this is different, i have friends who do this and they make money"

so far she's been doing it since november and hasn't turned anything close to a profit yet. The thing is my sister is so easily sucked into these get rich quick schemes. i looked up the odds of making money with reliv, and you have far better chance of taking all your money and putting it on one number on roulette and hitting it, then you do using reliv. i point these studies out to her, but it doesnt matter. i think im just going to have to let it take its course and hopefully she wont be down too much money.

 

[ChristineR]

I have read, but cannot confirm, that Amway products usually fair no better than other products which are considerably cheaper when tested by Consumer Reports. I believe their water filter was one that scored marginally higher than a Pur brand water filter but cost four times as much.

I'll have to see what I can dig up.

Based on my casual memories of CR reports I'd have to agree. The fact is that cleaning products and the like are not cutting edge technology. The cheaper products usually just have more water added and all the name brand products are pretty much the same. Indeed, in practice there are often only two or three actual companies out there and most of the products are the same except for packaging, coloring, perfume, and marketing campaigns. Amway usually tests out equal to the quality brands, but much more expensive.

 

[tsg]

Ramooone, have her do a search on ebay for Reliv products. I don't have any idea what the stuff is supposed to sell for but tell her to compare it to what it is selling for.

She might also want to make note of how much of it is available and to ask herself if she wants to get involved in a market that is that saturated.

ETA: She might also want to do a Google search on "frustrated Reliv reps"

 

[petre]

I was invited to a party once that turned into a Quixar presentation. I was a good friend and kept my mouth shut the entire time. Were I to end up at another one, I think I'd try something like this:

"Are these products difficult to sell, or are they so good that once people hear how wonderful they are they can't help but buy them?"

(I'm guessing the sales pitcher is likely to claim everyone will buy these products in a snap)

"Oh, then I've got a GREAT idea! Instead of hiring a HUGE number of unexperienced salespeople to shill the product and paying them and their entire upline on every sale, why don't they just ADVERTISE and let people buy the products from the company directly! It could save MILLIONS of dollars to do it that way if the products are easy to sell! The company would probably make us VPs with huge salaries for such a fantastic plan! Let's go tell them right now!"

I wonder what kind of response I'd get.

 

[ChristineR]

I was invited to a party once that turned into a Quixar presentation. I was a good friend and kept my mouth shut the entire time. Were I to end up at another one, I think I'd try something like this:

"Are these products difficult to sell, or are they so good that once people hear how wonderful they are they can't help but buy them?"

(I'm guessing the sales pitcher is likely to claim everyone will buy these products in a snap)

"Oh, then I've got a GREAT idea! Instead of hiring a HUGE number of unexperienced salespeople to shill the product and paying them and their entire upline on every sale, why don't they just ADVERTISE and let people buy the products from the company directly! It could save MILLIONS of dollars to do it that way if the products are easy to sell! The company would probably make us VPs with huge salaries for such a fantastic plan! Let's go tell them right now!"

I wonder what kind of response I'd get.

There's a standard response for that one. It involves product inventories (shifting the burden of onto the distributors) and marketing costs (shifting the burden of onto the distributors) and costs associated with packing and selling (shifting the burden of onto the distributors)...are you getting the idea? In other words, they're screwing you and that's good because you'll get a bigger share of the $$$$$ in the end!

 

[bluess]

We have friends into Quixar. We are buying vitamins from them (which I actually like) and nothing else. They are pushing (politely) for us to become downstream distributors. He is a doctor, and has advised that this is his retirement plan - he worked at a walk-in clinic for years, so really didn't put any away. I had to bite my tongue when he said that.