Mueller Investigation pt5

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WilliamSeger said:
Well, I walked right into that one, didn't I. I should have known what to expect when I invited a trumper to imagine it was Chelsea, but at least you're conceding the point. :rolleyes:
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Of course Trumpists have long conceded that there's dirt on Trump : in their strange minds it's digging up said dirt that's despicable.


At least Trump doesn't research dirt on his opponents, he just makes it up, and the likes of Bogative drink it up like mother's milk.
 
Probably worth reiterating for the record:

  • Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, funded by Paul Singer, to dig up dirt on Trump.
  • When Trump won the primary they discontinued the funding because they are a Republican organisation, funded by Republican donors.
  • Fusion GPS approached the DNC/Clinton Campaign's lawyers to ask if they wanted to take over the funding. They did.
  • Fusion GPS hired Orbis International to look in to Trump's business with Russia.
  • Orbis hired Steele as a subcontractor.
  • Steele used his unpaid Russian contacts to collect raw intel - what became known as the "Steele Dossier".

Anybody who says that this is the same thing as offering the Russian government policy changes in return for dirt and a misinformation campaign is either foolish or lying.
 
https://twitter.com/shelbyholliday/status/1102277514553118720

New in Instagramland: Roger Stone, using Insta stories (which disappear after 24 hrs), suggests he’s being framed.

He has used this image & language *many times* online and on social media. But this is the first time I’ve seen it since the gag order.

Update: the “Who Framed Roger Stone” post has been deleted from Stone’s Instagram story. (All of his other posts from today remain.)
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Picture embedded in first tweet.
 
Bogative said:
There was no mention of a quid pro quo in the email Trump Jr received. The Trump team went to the meeting expecting to give nothing for the information, they gave nothing, and they left with nothing. No quid pro quo, no collusion.
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Remember when there was the idea floated that this meeting was about Russian orphan adoptions? How ridiculous does that sound now?
 
alfaniner said:
Remember when there was the idea floated that this meeting was about Russian orphan adoptions? How ridiculous does that sound now?
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I don't get how that wasn't an admission. IIRC, Russia is refusing adoptions into the US in retribution for the sanctions in the Magintsky Act. So it was always about sanctions relief, right? The plausibly deniable take comes as negotiating sanctions relief for the relief of the counter-sanctions (a minor violation of the emoluments clause), instead of a quid pro quo for stolen information (a felony).
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Russia is refusing adoptions into the US in retribution for the sanctions in the Magintsky Act.
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This is correct. Putin punishes orphans for sanctions on himself for murdering his political enemies.


The "President" of Russia, in retaliation for the sanctions, chose to condemn tens of thousands of vulnerable, often disabled Russian babies to a hellish existence in inadequate state institutions, death at the hands of their Russian parents, or life on the streets rather than let willing and loving American parents adopt them.



And yet Trump can't think of a bad thing to say about Putin. Like "chairman" Kim, he's a murderous thug.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
https://twitter.com/shelbyholliday/status/1102277514553118720



Picture embedded in first tweet.
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I have the feeling that Stone would love to get into a tedious legal battle with the judge over the gag order. It fits very well into his "it's all a conspiracy to railroad me" narrative.

Popehat has been covering the technicalities of the gag order. It's a bit of a unsettled matter how much a judge can gag a person pending trial. So far, the judge has been very conservative to avoid a legal battle, gagging the lawyers (who are more open to being constrained by being professionals), and gagging Stone on the courthouse grounds.

Her most recent gag order still allows for Stone to profess his innocence generally, which is vague enough to invite boundary testing.
 
Bogative said:
Stop kidding yourself. The DNC and Clinton campaign gave something(money) for something(dirt on Trump).



Trump Jr. was promised something (dirt on Clinton) for… what, exactly?
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That's a major element to always bear in mind in campaign operations I'm rapidly discovering.

Every interaction or exchange of value has to be at parity (paid for, equal exchange of consideration, whatever) or a piece of paper tracking the "donated" in-kind contribution needs to be filed (with limits per individual, per election).

This is not an "oops golly gee" at this level of the game.
 
Bogative said:
There was no mention of a quid pro quo in the email Trump Jr received. The Trump team went to the meeting expecting to give nothing for the information, they gave nothing, and they left with nothing. No quid pro quo, no collusion.
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Getting something of value to the campaign for nothing is literally a crime . . . .

You just said he went in expecting and intending to commit a crime.
 
beren said:
Getting something of value to the campaign for nothing is literally a crime . . . .

You just said he went in expecting and intending to commit a crime.
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If a Republican commits an obvious crime, did it really happen?
 
Bogative said:
Stop kidding yourself. The DNC and Clinton campaign gave something(money) for something(dirt on Trump).
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Which is not a problem.

The money to pay for the research came from money that had been legally donated, and the people who did the research were compensated at the time.

Trump Jr. was promised something (dirt on Clinton) for… what, exactly?
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And this brings up 2 problems for Trump and the republicans:

- The Russians spent money to dig up dirt on Clinton, which means that it was an undeclared donation to the election (and one from a foreign source to boot!) Both of which are election no-nos.

- We do know that the goal of the russians was to get sanctions lifted. But the lack of an explicit "quid pro quo" means that the president is now beholden to the Russians, lest he be blackmailed
 
Bogative said:
Stop kidding yourself. The DNC and Clinton campaign gave something(money) for something(dirt on Trump).

Trump Jr. was promised something (dirt on Clinton) for… what, exactly?
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As others have pointed out, this is a pretty bad defense. You point out that the DNC paid for research, hence did not accept an illegal donation from a foreign state (indeed, no foreign state was involved, but rather a foreign research firm -- or two, perhaps). And then you suggest that Jr.'s actions were okay because he was merely accepting help (from the Russian gov't, according to the email chain, if I recall) and making no promises at all.

These two facts are totally relevant, but they kinda prove the opposite of what you intended. They are evidence that the DNC was acting consistently with the law and the Trump campaign (as represented by Jr.) was not.
 
The Trump-Defense seems to be: it's ok to profit from a crime, as long as you screw the thieves in the process - what business is it of the police?
 
It's hard for people to wrap their heads around it, but you actually want an explicit and clear quid pro quo on paper for the world to see. Then voters can make an informed choice.

The implications of an outlandish donation are that the donator expects the donatee to return the consideration using official powers once in office.
 
carlitos said:
And yet Trump can't think of a bad thing to say about Putin. Like "chairman" Kim, he's a murderous thug.
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But that is exactly why Trump likes Putin. He is envious of how Putin can use his political position and the fawning lackeys he surrounds himself with to eliminate enemies and people who insult or oppose him.

At this time, Trump probably realises he can't take the next step of actually eliminating his opponents (he just tries to get them investigated and prosecuted by the DoJ), but give him a few more years of preparing the American people by raising their tolerance level to the criminal stuff Trump does, and it may happen. Don't be surprised if sometime before the 2020 elections, an important enemy dies or disappears in mysterious or suspicious circumstances.

Any one of the illegal, criminal and unethical things that Trump is known to have done would have had him impeached 20-30 years ago - now, almost half the Senate apologises for him. You've been softened up America - it time to wake up from the nightmare.
 
I still really hope the Democrats have put all their hope into the Mueller probe and have some sort of at least vague plan that isn't just "what we hope will happen" in place if the Mueller probe turns out to not be the bombshell they think and hope it will be.

I'd wager the Republicans are more ready for a post "Mueller probe literally mathematically proves that Trump is a reptilian alien overlord" then the Democrats are for a "Mueller probe that doesn't completely leave Trump and every single member of his inner circle with zero way out."
 
JoeMorgue said:
I still really hope the Democrats have not put all their hope into the Mueller probe and have some sort of at least vague plan that isn't just "what we hope will happen" in place if the Mueller probe turns out to not be the bombshell they think and hope it will be.
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I imagine you intended to write the highlighted word.
 
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